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Erik · July 27, 2008, 03:40 PM

The factors are taken in and decided on very quickly. You seem to be imagining time lines much longer than the situation allows for and an intellectual process not even close to the snap judgement call being made.

But I'll let DA comment specifically beyond that about what he wrote.

---

"But it is suffcient to discuss the first item - a deaf subject. You have your gun toting subject with gun in hand, still pointed at the "man down" in broad daylight, but he does not respond to any of your commands.
[This was based on an event in the early 70's Philly where police arrived to a shooting. The subject used twin hearing aids, but when he fired his 2.5" .357 Magnum both devices failed, leaving him deaf as a rock. Take a guess at what happened when he failed to obey police commands.]"

Off the top of my head I'm not familiar with the particular shooting you are referring to. Are you citing an example where the good guy failed to comply with commands, moved, and was shot, or was not shot?

If he was shot, what is your point?

If he was not shot, what is your point?

But better questions than those would be:

How did his failing to follow orders and moving contribute to his being shot? Assuming he was.

How did his failing to follow orders and moving contribute to his noy being shot? Assuming he was not.

Oh, and WHY people commit action, at the level of analysis we're talking about, given the context, with the benefit of hind sight, is irrelevant. Deaf and shot? Unfortunate. Caught up in the moment, adrenalin flowing, with your game face on as you turn and reflexively bring your gun up and shot? Unfortunate. Plain clothes or off-duty LEO who assumes he's recognized, or that his badge is seen, or that it is other wise obvious what he is and what he is doing and shot? Unfortunate, unfortunate, unfortunate. Stubborn, having read some of these posts and committed yourself to doing what you know is right despite advise to the contrary and shot? Unfortunate.

But ultimately justified for reasons already explained.

And when they are not shot... Good. But those decisions ride on facts registered in split seconds. A glance the other way, hard focus on a front sight, screams, sensory over load, bad lighting, sleep deprivation, a whole host of and/or combination reasons... and those facts can be missed.

July 27, 2008, 03:40 PM	#74
Erik Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 1999 Location: America Posts: 3,479	The factors are taken in and decided on very quickly. You seem to be imagining time lines much longer than the situation allows for and an intellectual process not even close to the snap judgement call being made. But I'll let DA comment specifically beyond that about what he wrote. --- "But it is suffcient to discuss the first item - a deaf subject. You have your gun toting subject with gun in hand, still pointed at the "man down" in broad daylight, but he does not respond to any of your commands. [This was based on an event in the early 70's Philly where police arrived to a shooting. The subject used twin hearing aids, but when he fired his 2.5" .357 Magnum both devices failed, leaving him deaf as a rock. Take a guess at what happened when he failed to obey police commands.]" Off the top of my head I'm not familiar with the particular shooting you are referring to. Are you citing an example where the good guy failed to comply with commands, moved, and was shot, or was not shot? If he was shot, what is your point? If he was not shot, what is your point? But better questions than those would be: How did his failing to follow orders and moving contribute to his being shot? Assuming he was. How did his failing to follow orders and moving contribute to his noy being shot? Assuming he was not. Oh, and WHY people commit action, at the level of analysis we're talking about, given the context, with the benefit of hind sight, is irrelevant. Deaf and shot? Unfortunate. Caught up in the moment, adrenalin flowing, with your game face on as you turn and reflexively bring your gun up and shot? Unfortunate. Plain clothes or off-duty LEO who assumes he's recognized, or that his badge is seen, or that it is other wise obvious what he is and what he is doing and shot? Unfortunate, unfortunate, unfortunate. Stubborn, having read some of these posts and committed yourself to doing what you know is right despite advise to the contrary and shot? Unfortunate. But ultimately justified for reasons already explained. And when they are not shot... Good. But those decisions ride on facts registered in split seconds. A glance the other way, hard focus on a front sight, screams, sensory over load, bad lighting, sleep deprivation, a whole host of and/or combination reasons... and those facts can be missed. __________________ Meriam Webster's: Main Entry: ci·vil·ian Pronunciation: \sə-ˈvil-yən also -ˈvi-yən\, Function: noun, Date: 14th century, 1: a specialist in Roman or modern civil law, 2 a: one not on active duty in the armed services or not on a police or firefighting force b: outsider 1, — civilian adjective Last edited by Erik; July 27, 2008 at 04:23 PM.