The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - man pulls gun on man upset about political bumper sticker

MLeake · December 5, 2012, 10:44 PM

langenc, have you read a further article or report that filled in the blanks some of us are asking about?

The odds are Williams screwed up. However, there are a number of possible factors that could yet turn up that would change our take on the situation. I think it's pretty foolish for so many of our members to dogpile on the guy without facts present, as it could be very embarrassing if the guy turns out to be:

significantly smaller than Rodriguez;

suffering from some medical condition or infirmity;

etc.

One of the legal rules that has bitten many a belligerent is the concept that one takes his victim how one finds him.

In other words, if you pick a fight at a bar, and the guy you punch turns out to be on a pacemaker, and his fall to the floor screws it up, and he dies - you just committed murder. It doesn't matter that the vast majority of other people would not have been badly hurt, all that matters is that you started the altercation with the guy who had a serious heart condition, and that he died.

What is reasonably likely to be deadly to my wife's 105lb cousin is not necessarily likely to be deadly to me. Force that might overwhelm me is less likely to overwhelm a friend of mine who wrestled all through school, in college, and post grad, who is still a gym rat, and who weighs 260 or so.

In the example of the guy with the pacemaker, he might make a strong argument for drawing on you when you came at him. (Edit: Even though, to all those present, it might not look reasonable at the time, the odds are they would find it very reasonable when they learned of his condition.)

Like I noted earlier, too, the article doesn't describe Williams' knives, except for the neck knife.

A lot of the time, at home, I'm likely to have a handgun; a rift folding knife; a leatherman skeletool; and possibly a small knife that I use for cleaning carbon of an AR's bolt, or my larger leatherman, depending on what I'm doing. Described that way, I don't think it sounds menacing, unhinged, nor mall ninja-esque.

But somebody could accurately (if incompletely) write that I had a gun and three knives!!

December 5, 2012, 10:44 PM	#33
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	langenc, have you read a further article or report that filled in the blanks some of us are asking about? The odds are Williams screwed up. However, there are a number of possible factors that could yet turn up that would change our take on the situation. I think it's pretty foolish for so many of our members to dogpile on the guy without facts present, as it could be very embarrassing if the guy turns out to be: significantly smaller than Rodriguez; suffering from some medical condition or infirmity; etc. One of the legal rules that has bitten many a belligerent is the concept that one takes his victim how one finds him. In other words, if you pick a fight at a bar, and the guy you punch turns out to be on a pacemaker, and his fall to the floor screws it up, and he dies - you just committed murder. It doesn't matter that the vast majority of other people would not have been badly hurt, all that matters is that you started the altercation with the guy who had a serious heart condition, and that he died. What is reasonably likely to be deadly to my wife's 105lb cousin is not necessarily likely to be deadly to me. Force that might overwhelm me is less likely to overwhelm a friend of mine who wrestled all through school, in college, and post grad, who is still a gym rat, and who weighs 260 or so. In the example of the guy with the pacemaker, he might make a strong argument for drawing on you when you came at him. (Edit: Even though, to all those present, it might not look reasonable at the time, the odds are they would find it very reasonable when they learned of his condition.) Like I noted earlier, too, the article doesn't describe Williams' knives, except for the neck knife. A lot of the time, at home, I'm likely to have a handgun; a rift folding knife; a leatherman skeletool; and possibly a small knife that I use for cleaning carbon of an AR's bolt, or my larger leatherman, depending on what I'm doing. Described that way, I don't think it sounds menacing, unhinged, nor mall ninja-esque. But somebody could accurately (if incompletely) write that I had a gun and three knives!!