[Double Naught Spy]

eng2 said,

second the brain stem top lip below the nose complete shut down

springmom said,

The T formed by the eyes and nose will indeed put the shot into the brain stem and the cerebellum, ...

The nightmare comes in trying for a side shot. THAT would be an almost-impossible shot, ISTM, because you would be shooting into the most curved part of the skull, you would be in HUGE danger of making a totally survivable shot, and you have the problem of hair which may well distort the size and shae of the head for a shot. And from the back...well, if you are absolutely certain that there is nobody else in front of the BG, maybe. But again, the curvature of the skull is there, hair will certainly camoflauge the exact curve of the skull so that it would be VERY hard to make the shot just below the base of the skull.....

Those are some pretty wild notions.

First, it is amazing that if you shoot the top lip below the nose that you will hit the brain stem and cause a complete shutdown and that you can also shoot the T between the eyes and nose and either get a brain, cerebellum, or brain stem hit.

Y'all have oversimplified a difficult shot and have done so by claiming specific impact locations will cause specific CNS destruction.

Check the 2-D graphic below. This graphic pertains only to relative vertical shot angles as seen from the side and does not account for horizontal angles. Note that the same vertical angle problems also exist for horizontal angles as well. Depending on the angle, shots to the nose and lower orbits most definitely can miss the brain, brain stem, and spinal cord. This shots are not an assured success as noted above. There are folks who have attempted suicide by placing a gun in their mouths and firing. With the wrong angles, the shots completely miss vital structures and exit the back of the neck.

This leads into the aspect of shot placement. All that you can do as a shooter is to land rounds on the exterior of the bad guy. Ideally, you will be aiming at a specific area in hopes of damaging key organs below the impact. However, once a round is fired and hits the appropriate spot, there is no control on where the round will travel. It may be deflected from the hoped-for internal vital structure.

As the head is a fairly small target that tends to move around quite a bit, trying to aim a shot at the exterior of the person in hopes of hitting the brain, stem, and cerebellum will be tough. Of the three, the brain itself would be the easiest to hit as it is the largest.

springmom said,

The nightmare comes in trying for a side shot. THAT would be an almost-impossible shot, ISTM, because you would be shooting into the most curved part of the skull, you would be in HUGE danger of making a totally survivable shot, and you have the problem of hair which may well distort the size and shae of the head for a shot. And from the back...well, if you are absolutely certain that there is nobody else in front of the BG, maybe. But again, the curvature of the skull is there, hair will certainly camoflauge the exact curve of the skull so that it would be VERY hard to make the shot just below the base of the skull.....

This is strange, Why should the shooter be concerned for what is in front of the bad guy when the shooter is trying to take him from the back? Why wouldn't the opposite also be true, or from the sides for that matter?

As for the side of the skull, and the back apparently, just how would you be shooting the most curved part s of the skull? Just curious, could you please rank the parts of the skull in order of amount of curvature? Contrary to your statement, the side of the skull is flatter than many other areas. No parts are completely flat, of course, but the area of the temporal is about as close as you can get.

This is why CHL instructors tend to tell people not to take head shots, never mind the hostage situation.

This certainly has not been the case with the instructors I have had and instructors I know.

Glenn E. Meyer said,

The CHL course is not to teach you tactics.

This is true. However, students often ask about such matters and the CHL instructor will usually try to explain things. That is not to say that the instructor will be teaching tactics, but may explain the reasoning for such shots, difficulty, etc.

Capt Charlie asked,

CNightmare situation, no matter how you look at it. Now, let me throw out this question that makes it an even worse nightmare: BG says drop your gun or I kill her (him). What would you do?

My wife and I have discussed this at some length. There will be no relinguishing of a gun to the bad guy. Providing the bad guy with a another weapon and making us disarmed means that he would now have two hostages instead of one and better armed. The rule is that either we take the shot or vacate. The hostage taker (assuming it is just one) isn't likely to give chase while holding a hostage and he isn't going to shoot his hostage because a spouse did not turn over a gun. He needs the hostage as a negotiating tool and as a shield. So shooting his only hostage at that time would not be prudent for him. Of course, this all assumes the bad guy has higher function reasoning and can control himself. Such folks may not have higher function reasoning due to stress, drugs, medical conditions, mental conditions, etc. So they don't always play by any sort of well thought plans, if they had any.