The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - 30/30-smokeless

**Mike Irwin** · May 20, 2006, 01:15 PM

Yes, and no, at the same time.

As Tom notes, the .30-40 Krag predated the .30-30, but wasn't a civilan cartridge until about 1897 or so when Winchester started offering it in the Model 1895 lever action.

The .30-30 and the .25-35 were both introduced commercially in 1895. The first Model 1894s were offered only in .38-55 and .32-40 blackpowder, because there were a couple of hitches with the smokeless powder that was supposed to go into the .30-30 and .25-35 rounds.

It's not really correct to say that the .25-35 was developed FROM the .30-30, either, as both were in development at the same time.

The first smokeless centerfire rifle cartridge, though, was the 8mm Lebel in 1886 or there abouts.

Smokeless powders had been used in other applications before that, though. Some of the earliest was Schultz's, which was a nitrated wood pulp for use in shot shells. There was also a powder called Golden Rod, or something like that, that used a picric acid base. It worked OK, but had a tendency to dye the skin a nice yellow color if you got into the smoke.

May 20, 2006, 01:15 PM	#4
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,394	Yes, and no, at the same time. As Tom notes, the .30-40 Krag predated the .30-30, but wasn't a civilan cartridge until about 1897 or so when Winchester started offering it in the Model 1895 lever action. The .30-30 and the .25-35 were both introduced commercially in 1895. The first Model 1894s were offered only in .38-55 and .32-40 blackpowder, because there were a couple of hitches with the smokeless powder that was supposed to go into the .30-30 and .25-35 rounds. It's not really correct to say that the .25-35 was developed FROM the .30-30, either, as both were in development at the same time. The first smokeless centerfire rifle cartridge, though, was the 8mm Lebel in 1886 or there abouts. Smokeless powders had been used in other applications before that, though. Some of the earliest was Schultz's, which was a nitrated wood pulp for use in shot shells. There was also a powder called Golden Rod, or something like that, that used a picric acid base. It worked OK, but had a tendency to dye the skin a nice yellow color if you got into the smoke. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.