[Skorzeny]

Fubsy:

Lets see... Where to start...

First of all, have you ever seen Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu at work (not just on TV, but with your own eyes or maybe fight/spar against it)?

When you say Jiu-Jitsu, I wonder if you mean classical Japanese Jiu-Jitsu or Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu? These two are a world apart. Frankly, Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, because it is taught statically against a cooperating opponent, is extremely difficult to put into effect unless one has literally decades of training (like Ueshiba Morihei, the founder of Aikido).

BJJ is taught with both static, cooperative training AND full force, dynamic sparring, which allows you learn to deal with unexpected or strong (or both) momvements by your opponent.

My wife is that 110lbs. person with very little muscle. She used to know next to nothing about fighting before she started BJJ and now, she can choke, armbar, leglock and do all sorts of nasty things against guys who are 175-200lbs. and untrained in grappling. They are very baffled and amazed. One second, they are trying to strangulate her and the next second, their elbows are hyper-extended and ready to break. Or they think that they are on top of her, and the next second their knees and ankles are ready to break from a heel hook.

I myself weigh 175lbs. and I have sparred (everything allowed except eye gouging, fish hooking, biting and groin grabs) with "blackbelts" in all sorts of Karate systems, amateur boxers as well as wrestlers with much greater weight than me (225-250lbs.) and have submitted them handily. I can't really think of any other system that would let me do that against such well trained, bigger athletes in a relatively realistic context.

You've got to see it with your own eyes to believe it. I urge you to go down to the local BJJ school if you can find one, find someone other than a rank beginner (and somone who weighs much less than you) and say "that Jiu-Jitsu stuff doesn't work on me. I can just overpower you and smother you." I guarantee you that you will get a free opinion adjustment. You may feel pain, but you won't get hurt permanently, because the chances are, you will tap or submit (or pass out from the carotid choke).

Almost all of my fights during my youth did indeed go to the ground. This is one of the reasons why I started to look for a grappling art eons ago. I think that my experience mirros those of many others.

Sure boxers can throw elbows. That's like saying a TKD practitioner can also throw a punch. See what I mean? I don't think that pure boxers really know the most effective bio-mechanics of an elbow strike nor can he really throw it with effectiveness and accuracy, because he does not train in it. I know many Karate systems that teach elbows and knees, but I have almost never seen them use them in a real fight or even in sparring. Training statically in elbows and knees aren't going to help. You have to use them full force (naturally with protective gear) against a dynamic, moving opponent to learn how to apply them effectively.

No Holds Barred events are excellent laboratories to see what works and what does not, depending on the rules (usually the less the better). They show what works in a mano-a-mano unarmed fight. Of course, multi-opponent and armed fights are different.

But if that is your argument against grappling, are you somehow suggesting that those systems which are ineffective in one-on-one fights (like most Karate systems, Japanese Jiu-Jitsu, etc. etc. ad naseum) some how magically become effective against armed or multiple opponents?

I have been in fights with more than one person (and with weapons) and I can tell you that unless you are incredibly and extraordinarily skilled AND the opponents are completely clueless, you will get seriously injured (and I was). If you have to deal with multi-opponents and/or armed opponents, you find an equalizer. And that is not BJJ, Karate, Judo, boxing etc. etc. You get yourself a rock, a ruler, a knife, a stick, a pistol, a shotgun or a rifle.

If you think that any amount of boxing or Isshinryu Karate is going to get you out safely against four guys who are decently athletic or are armed with knives, stick or whatever, you either saw too many Steven Seagal movies to know what real fights are like. Then, it really doesn't matter how much I try to convince you, isn't it?

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu