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nmbrinkman · March 13, 2013, 04:26 PM

Let's be clear. There aren't non lethal options (plural). There's one, a taser. As a Marine I was trained to use military grade OC spray and as a result had it used against me in training to learn its limitations. I was sprayed directly in the face followed by fighting my way through aggressors and having to subdue them. It's easily acceptable to think anyone with the most basic hand to hand fighting skills to fight through even some of the strongest "pepper spray".

I would also like to add that while both tasers and semi auto handguns can fail both mechanically and ballistically, I feel with the options available in both caliber and ammunition types as well as the simplicity of a the mechanics of, a firearm is superior to a taser. Failures in a firearm are generally a result of a "dud" bullet. More specifically a bad primer. Easily cleared and reloaded in one motion that automatically loads another round to replace the failed round. Takes less than two seconds. The same cannot be said about a taser. I can easily avoid under penetration by choosing a caliber and bullet combination that can easily penetrate all but a teflon and ceramic plate laden vest. Another disadvantage to a taser is it will not penetrate walls or other forms of cover. Not the issue with my .45 ACP. Also, it's reasonable to believe that your pistol in a bedside safe for a very long period of time will fire whereas a taser probably won't or maybe it will. Neither instill confidence.

You were also talking about making weapons harder to get (through price, availability and/or laws). This doesn't take into account the millions upon millions that are already out there and the millions upon millions that "go missing" before they're made illegal. You're never going to unring that bell. Firearm violence will still happen. It will just make law abiding citizens wield a knife in a potential gun fight. Criminals will assume you're unarmed making their firearm even more dangerous.

I remember something about owning hand grenades and if criminals can get them so should citizens. Hand grenades however are not used in home invasions, firearms are and always will be regardless of gun laws.

I'd also like to add that firearms aren't just tools (in reference to the 2A) to fight a tyrannical government. Just a populace owning them is a show of force. You don't have to use them for them to be effective. A deterrent if you will.

March 13, 2013, 04:26 PM	#96
nmbrinkman Member Join Date: May 30, 2012 Posts: 40	Do you Really Need a Gun? Let's be clear. There aren't non lethal options (plural). There's one, a taser. As a Marine I was trained to use military grade OC spray and as a result had it used against me in training to learn its limitations. I was sprayed directly in the face followed by fighting my way through aggressors and having to subdue them. It's easily acceptable to think anyone with the most basic hand to hand fighting skills to fight through even some of the strongest "pepper spray". I would also like to add that while both tasers and semi auto handguns can fail both mechanically and ballistically, I feel with the options available in both caliber and ammunition types as well as the simplicity of a the mechanics of, a firearm is superior to a taser. Failures in a firearm are generally a result of a "dud" bullet. More specifically a bad primer. Easily cleared and reloaded in one motion that automatically loads another round to replace the failed round. Takes less than two seconds. The same cannot be said about a taser. I can easily avoid under penetration by choosing a caliber and bullet combination that can easily penetrate all but a teflon and ceramic plate laden vest. Another disadvantage to a taser is it will not penetrate walls or other forms of cover. Not the issue with my .45 ACP. Also, it's reasonable to believe that your pistol in a bedside safe for a very long period of time will fire whereas a taser probably won't or maybe it will. Neither instill confidence. You were also talking about making weapons harder to get (through price, availability and/or laws). This doesn't take into account the millions upon millions that are already out there and the millions upon millions that "go missing" before they're made illegal. You're never going to unring that bell. Firearm violence will still happen. It will just make law abiding citizens wield a knife in a potential gun fight. Criminals will assume you're unarmed making their firearm even more dangerous. I remember something about owning hand grenades and if criminals can get them so should citizens. Hand grenades however are not used in home invasions, firearms are and always will be regardless of gun laws. I'd also like to add that firearms aren't just tools (in reference to the 2A) to fight a tyrannical government. Just a populace owning them is a show of force. You don't have to use them for them to be effective. A deterrent if you will.