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Old January 25, 1999, 04:14 PM   #8
o1paw
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Join Date: October 15, 1998
Location: Washington
Posts: 62
First let me say that I havent seen the training film, but I did see the movie (for what thats worth) and read a write up on it back in 89 or 90. The facts are a little fuzzy, its been awhile, so if I get something wrong, please correct me. I dont think it was all the fault of an enemic caliber, I dont think it was all a lack of training, I dont think it was all a lack of teamwork. I think it was a combination of all of the above that led to this tragedy. First off, the killing wound was delivered by a 9mm, correct? And it passed through the perp's upper arm and came to rest in one lung? I think I got that right. And didnt it take over 2 minutes for the perp to succom to his wounds? And wasnt he hit after the "fatal" hit? I'm not sure if I'm remembering this correctally, but if that was the case, then indeed the FBI was correct in their search for a bigger, more powerful, deeper penatrating round. The 10mm they decided on would have penatrated through both lungs, in my opinion, done much more damage, and quite possibly ended the fight much quicker. Shot placement is probably 80% of a gunfight, with tactics another 10% and caliber another 10% ( thats just an estimation, mind you). I'm not sure if the agents were properly trained or not, but from what I've gathered, they really didnt use their weapons effectively in the roles they were designed for. They could have used what shotguns they had much more effectively than what they did. To win a gunfight, IMHO, you have to have superior, overwhelming fire delivered accurately into the targets. This, it seems, they did not do. As far as CNS shots are concerned, headshots during combat are virtually impossible to achieve unless your a sniper with a scoped weapon and then, maybe. Even at " spitting distance" its very difficult to achieve. Realize, that the Mozambique drill first uses center of mass, followed by a head shot. One of the reasons is that if you score hits with the first two center of mass hits, they'll slow the target down enough to place an accurate head shot. Remember, that bad guys moving, he doesnt want to get shot. Also, you dont have to hit the head to score a CNS shot. The brain stem will give you the same results. Sure, the brain stem or spine is a smaller target, but at least if you miss you've still hurt the target. You miss the head, good chance you just hit air. A deeper penatrating caliber would offer a better chance of penatrating deep enough to shatter the spine if your aiming for the "3rd button down" so to speak. Should they have had a carbine in each car with an agent trained to properly imploy it? You bet. Should they have called for back-up before the take-down? You bet. Have they really learned from this? I dont know. Maybe you guys could answer that one for me. Am I in left field here guys? What do you guys think?
--01paw
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