The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - Deputies shoot and kill man after knocking on the wrong door

Botswana · July 16, 2012, 02:36 PM

There's some facts presented in the article that I summarized in the original post. You could argue any of them and they may yet be disproven, but I'm going to keep them in mind.

Who said the guy had the gun drawn? The deputies? Ok, obviously that helps explain the shooting but it also doesn't mean it isn't true.

Who is saying the cops didn't announce themselves? Again, we don't know. However, I do think this part is true because who in their right mind answers the door with a loaded weapon pointed at police officers if they know law enforcement is on the other side of the door?

If you assume that the resident answered with the gun drawn and pointed at the officers then it makes sense if officers did not identify themselves first.

It actually gets worse if you do it the other way. If the officers DID identify themselves and the resident was not pointing the gun at the officers then why did they shoot?

This was not a "no knock raid" however, unless there are further facts not being reported, but I don't care to speculate.

I do wonder if the deputies were in uniform. It may not matter if it was dark enough in the neighborhood. Even through a peephole the victim may not have been able to tell. That is all speculation as well, so I can give it no weight.

My one takeaway from this story is that it is crucial for law enforcement personnel to identify themselves. If the deputies had identified themselves and they were still greeted with an armed homeowner levelling a weapon at them, maybe it would make some sense. Still a tragedy, but the circumstances easier to comprehend.

I personally believe that law enforcement officers have a duty to identify themselves when they are on official business. In the case where I had a police officer POUNDING on my door, had he not identified himself as law enforcement I certainly would have been armed. It sounded like someone was breaking in and I was scared out of my wits being woken at 3am. The officer's sense of urgency was justified because he was responding to a violent domestic disturbance and once he verified he had the wrong street number he sped away without so much as a "sorry for waking you". (He did take a moment to make sure I wasn't the one beating my wife. A little insulting but understandable)

What bothers me the most about this story is what appears to be a consistent laxity about following procedures by various police departments and doing it with the justification that the system "handcuffs" their ability to catch bad guys. Maybe so, but the rules have come about for a reason.

July 16, 2012, 02:36 PM	#19
Botswana Senior Member Join Date: July 4, 2012 Posts: 203	There's some facts presented in the article that I summarized in the original post. You could argue any of them and they may yet be disproven, but I'm going to keep them in mind. Who said the guy had the gun drawn? The deputies? Ok, obviously that helps explain the shooting but it also doesn't mean it isn't true. Who is saying the cops didn't announce themselves? Again, we don't know. However, I do think this part is true because who in their right mind answers the door with a loaded weapon pointed at police officers if they know law enforcement is on the other side of the door? If you assume that the resident answered with the gun drawn and pointed at the officers then it makes sense if officers did not identify themselves first. It actually gets worse if you do it the other way. If the officers DID identify themselves and the resident was not pointing the gun at the officers then why did they shoot? This was not a "no knock raid" however, unless there are further facts not being reported, but I don't care to speculate. I do wonder if the deputies were in uniform. It may not matter if it was dark enough in the neighborhood. Even through a peephole the victim may not have been able to tell. That is all speculation as well, so I can give it no weight. My one takeaway from this story is that it is crucial for law enforcement personnel to identify themselves. If the deputies had identified themselves and they were still greeted with an armed homeowner levelling a weapon at them, maybe it would make some sense. Still a tragedy, but the circumstances easier to comprehend. I personally believe that law enforcement officers have a duty to identify themselves when they are on official business. In the case where I had a police officer POUNDING on my door, had he not identified himself as law enforcement I certainly would have been armed. It sounded like someone was breaking in and I was scared out of my wits being woken at 3am. The officer's sense of urgency was justified because he was responding to a violent domestic disturbance and once he verified he had the wrong street number he sped away without so much as a "sorry for waking you". (He did take a moment to make sure I wasn't the one beating my wife. A little insulting but understandable) What bothers me the most about this story is what appears to be a consistent laxity about following procedures by various police departments and doing it with the justification that the system "handcuffs" their ability to catch bad guys. Maybe so, but the rules have come about for a reason.