The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - Video: Shot with LEO .45 and still fighting for minutes

rantingredneck · January 16, 2007, 11:55 PM

First let me say unequivocally I'm not a LEO and never have been, but I am a 22 year student of the martial arts, from empty hands, to edged weapons, to firearms. I've also worked in various mental health programs over the last 12 years of my professional life and have worked with some extremely violent individuals who required physical restraint to prevent them from injuring themselves or others, namely me. I've had to wrestle with and restrain individuals taller, stronger, and heavier than me to the ground and keep them there without injuring them or allowing them to injure me. And for a three year period in my life I did this on a near daily basis. It is from this experience that my comments about this video spring.

I notice the officer moves away only slightly when the fellow takes out a knife to open the suspicious package. To his credit he moves away and puts his hand on his gun, but he should've never allowed that fellow to draw that knife in the first place. He should've instructed the fellow to put the knife down and his hands on the vehicle or maybe even cuffed him so he could open the package himself. An average human can close a gap of 21 feet in a second and a half. The cop was no more than 5 or 6 feet away from the fellow when he was holding the blade. If he'd closed that gap faster and been able to block the cop's draw, he could've easily sustained a serious or fatal wound from the blade. Knife fighting is ugly business. One of my favorite quotes on the subject is that if two people who know what they're doing engage with blades, one is going to the hospital and the other is going to the morgue. If the assailant had known what he was doing and not been high the cop could've been in serious trouble in that situation with the gap between them being so narrow.

As it is, and as others have said, the cop seemed to fall into the fallacy of the "one shot stop". He should've double or even triple tapped him COM. A CNS shot on an advancing attacker even at that range could've been dicey. A local Sheriff in the neighboring county here got some press years ago for a shooting of a kid trying to stick up a convenience store with a pellet gun. The pellet gun looked like the real thing and the Sheriff happened to be off duty and patronizing the store at the time. He triple tapped the kid and he didn't fall so he triple tapped him a second time and he finally went down. It was of course ruled a good shoot because the kid was engaged in a felony with a fake firearm that looked just like the real thing.

The third problem I have is that the cop wrestled with the guy for a long time while his holster was admittedly unsecured. Had the gun fallen out and the BG grabbed it, well then the story would've had a much different ending...........

January 16, 2007, 11:55 PM	#52
rantingredneck Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,728	First let me say unequivocally I'm not a LEO and never have been, but I am a 22 year student of the martial arts, from empty hands, to edged weapons, to firearms. I've also worked in various mental health programs over the last 12 years of my professional life and have worked with some extremely violent individuals who required physical restraint to prevent them from injuring themselves or others, namely me. I've had to wrestle with and restrain individuals taller, stronger, and heavier than me to the ground and keep them there without injuring them or allowing them to injure me. And for a three year period in my life I did this on a near daily basis. It is from this experience that my comments about this video spring. I notice the officer moves away only slightly when the fellow takes out a knife to open the suspicious package. To his credit he moves away and puts his hand on his gun, but he should've never allowed that fellow to draw that knife in the first place. He should've instructed the fellow to put the knife down and his hands on the vehicle or maybe even cuffed him so he could open the package himself. An average human can close a gap of 21 feet in a second and a half. The cop was no more than 5 or 6 feet away from the fellow when he was holding the blade. If he'd closed that gap faster and been able to block the cop's draw, he could've easily sustained a serious or fatal wound from the blade. Knife fighting is ugly business. One of my favorite quotes on the subject is that if two people who know what they're doing engage with blades, one is going to the hospital and the other is going to the morgue. If the assailant had known what he was doing and not been high the cop could've been in serious trouble in that situation with the gap between them being so narrow. As it is, and as others have said, the cop seemed to fall into the fallacy of the "one shot stop". He should've double or even triple tapped him COM. A CNS shot on an advancing attacker even at that range could've been dicey. A local Sheriff in the neighboring county here got some press years ago for a shooting of a kid trying to stick up a convenience store with a pellet gun. The pellet gun looked like the real thing and the Sheriff happened to be off duty and patronizing the store at the time. He triple tapped the kid and he didn't fall so he triple tapped him a second time and he finally went down. It was of course ruled a good shoot because the kid was engaged in a felony with a fake firearm that looked just like the real thing. The third problem I have is that the cop wrestled with the guy for a long time while his holster was admittedly unsecured. Had the gun fallen out and the BG grabbed it, well then the story would've had a much different ending...........