The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - How many shots per group for best accuracy assesment?

Bart B. · December 23, 2012, 10:22 AM

1stmar asks me can if I can confidently say that group is not effected by your ability or environmentals?

Well, it sure is.

While my test groups are pretty darned good, they're about 1/3rd the size of what I've shot in competition. I've got a beating heart like my friend has as mentioned in the next paragraph.

A friend tested some specially sorted bullets in his Winchester 70 back in 1971 shooting several 10-shot groups at 600 yards that ranged from 7/10ths inch to 1-1/2 inch. Then he shot 40 shots into a single group measureing 1-15/16ths inch. Shooting the same rifle and ammo at the Nationals that year, his on-target groups in the 600 yard target's scoring rings were about 8 inches. Such is life when human pulse beat pumps muscles around to make even the best prone shooter's hold cover about 4 inches at 600 yards (2/3rds MOA)and those invisible subtle cross winds blow bullets around adding to that. The nasty icing on this accuracy cake is the aperture sights he used; not quite as precise as scopes. But he won all the 600 yard matches that year.

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603country supposes that if a fellow is going to be into competition shooting, working up the perfect load has more meaning.

I've seldom worked up a load for my own use. The loads used in the 800-yard group with my Palma rifle as well as both used in my .30-.338 mag at 1000 yards were what I got from others using the same cartridge in their rifles that won the matches and set the records. The only time I ever worked up a load was back in the 1960's when I tried a .264 Win. Mag. with Norma 139-gr. nickel plated match bullets; no body had used that cartridge in long range matches before. I don't prep cases in any way except sometimes turn necks to get their wall thickness spread no more than 1/1000th. I full length size fired ones. And new cases in my .30 caliber magnums have shot just as accurate as reloaded ones.

With 26 caliber and larger bores, I don't think working up a load has much benefit. Loads used by folks shooting most accurate are pretty much the same for each cartridge. What minute difference there may be is extremely hard to see and will cost a lot of barrel life getting it refined. Seldom does a handloader better what Black Hills or Federal (and sometimes Hornady) match ammo does accuracy wise. Especially if they test it properly (shoot enough shots per test group!!!)

December 23, 2012, 10:22 AM	#21
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	1stmar asks me can if I can confidently say that group is not effected by your ability or environmentals? Well, it sure is. While my test groups are pretty darned good, they're about 1/3rd the size of what I've shot in competition. I've got a beating heart like my friend has as mentioned in the next paragraph. A friend tested some specially sorted bullets in his Winchester 70 back in 1971 shooting several 10-shot groups at 600 yards that ranged from 7/10ths inch to 1-1/2 inch. Then he shot 40 shots into a single group measureing 1-15/16ths inch. Shooting the same rifle and ammo at the Nationals that year, his on-target groups in the 600 yard target's scoring rings were about 8 inches. Such is life when human pulse beat pumps muscles around to make even the best prone shooter's hold cover about 4 inches at 600 yards (2/3rds MOA)and those invisible subtle cross winds blow bullets around adding to that. The nasty icing on this accuracy cake is the aperture sights he used; not quite as precise as scopes. But he won all the 600 yard matches that year. ============================== 603country supposes that if a fellow is going to be into competition shooting, working up the perfect load has more meaning. I've seldom worked up a load for my own use. The loads used in the 800-yard group with my Palma rifle as well as both used in my .30-.338 mag at 1000 yards were what I got from others using the same cartridge in their rifles that won the matches and set the records. The only time I ever worked up a load was back in the 1960's when I tried a .264 Win. Mag. with Norma 139-gr. nickel plated match bullets; no body had used that cartridge in long range matches before. I don't prep cases in any way except sometimes turn necks to get their wall thickness spread no more than 1/1000th. I full length size fired ones. And new cases in my .30 caliber magnums have shot just as accurate as reloaded ones. With 26 caliber and larger bores, I don't think working up a load has much benefit. Loads used by folks shooting most accurate are pretty much the same for each cartridge. What minute difference there may be is extremely hard to see and will cost a lot of barrel life getting it refined. Seldom does a handloader better what Black Hills or Federal (and sometimes Hornady) match ammo does accuracy wise. Especially if they test it properly (shoot enough shots per test group!!!) Last edited by Bart B.; December 23, 2012 at 10:46 AM.