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Old April 14, 2011, 03:01 PM   #51
Alaska444
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Join Date: April 3, 2010
Posts: 1,231
Quote:
I think the GA law about "public gatherings" has more to do with festivals and political rallies, although I've never tried to bring a weapon to a concert. I was looking at some other states' laws the other day, and some specifically prohibit weapons at concerts.

As far as whether the guy was in the wrong to pull a weapon, I can't say. I wasn't there, and I don't know how the two guys following were behaving. I will say that the violent crime rate in Atlanta is high, which is one reason I spend minimal time in the metro area.

With regard to 20yds being three times the permitted defensive range, where the heck did you come up with that one, Alaska444? I've never seen a codified range, although most instructors would recommend that if you have distance, use it to make an exit.

I suspect people are confusing the meaning of the Tueller drill, when it comes to the magical "7 yards." That distance is the MINIMUM distance at which the normal shooter could draw and get off a shot before a knife/club wielding attacker can close and strike. In other words, if you are really feeling threatened, but wait until 7 yards, you are very likely screwed.
Dear MLeake,

Thank you and all for a good review of the CCW basics with this thread. The 21 foot rule is an application of the self defense justification of deadly force only under the circumstances of IMMEDIATE threat of death or grave bodily harm. Many specify this under the following categories as we all know:

A = Ability. The person deemed to be a threat must possess the ability or power to kill or maim.

O = Opportunity. The person deemed to be a threat must be capable of immediately employing his power to kill or maim.

J = Jeopardy. This means that the person deemed to be a threat must be acting in such a manner that a reasonable and prudent person would conclude beyond doubt that his intent is to kill or cripple.


First, do these two have the ability to inflict deadly force or grave bodily harm, possibly, so we will give them that part without argument.

Second, did they have at 20 yards with no visible weapons the opportunity IMMEDIATELY, at the very moment to inflict death or grave bodily harm? ABSOLUTELY not, and that is why the 21 foot rule is an important aspect of CCW permit classes. With no weapons in sight, they had absolutely NO opportunity at the very moment that the man in the OP pulled his gun. Sorry, but I do take issue that the 21 foot rule is not codified. There are indeed too many cases where people were further than 21 foot at the time they shot someone with a knife approaching them that are now in jail as I learned in my CCW classes.

In addition, since the person was already worried about the two, the first line of defense is evasive actions especially with 20 yards between them. Cross the street abruptly if possible, get on the other side of a car, etc. and evaluate their reactions.

Lastly, if they are rapidly approaching, back up and keep the distance.

Looking at the last criteria, jeopardy, as many have correctly noted, the two punks apparently had ignored these old folks and no directed threats, no shortening of the distance between them occurred. A court would not find jeopardy under the conditions described in the OP.

Thus, I believe that the man in the OP did everything incorrectly and his example is of what not to do. I certainly would not want to go to court with that story as my only defense on why I drew my weapon. It is a very problematic case for several reasons even though it could have, might have turned out different. Sorry, the man in my opinion was not justified by his actions.
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