The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - 45 long colt cowboy ammo for self defense

Jim March · December 28, 2008, 02:12 AM

Modern "cowboy action" ammo is NOT designed to duplicate "old west" conditions.

At the height of what we think of as the "old west" period (1873-1890ish) there were NO 45LC leverguns or long guns of any type, other than maybe a one-off custom here and there. That's because the 45LC rim was too narrow for reliable extraction. 45LC leverguns do exist today, and "cowboy action" ammo is designed so as not to go past 1,000fps in a rifle barrel. Cowboy action shooting sports use metal targets at close range with lots of bystanders - it's a safety issue that has NOTHING whatsoever to do with authenticity.

That load at 950fps is a good deal more dangerous than the same at 700/750.

Next...there are some spectacularly good modern loads in 45LC. Why the hell not carry them? The best is likely the Speer 250gr "giant hollowpoint from hell" JHP. It will do about 900-950 from a typical 4" barrel, and will expand reliably from 850 on up. It's a scaled up version of the 135gr 38+P "snubby special" concept. I think it's likely this is the most deadly subsonic load in existence in anything like a standard caliber.

Winchester's 225gr Silvertip is also a good load and still stays subsonic. It's not as good as the Speer 250 but it's worlds ahead of "cowboy loads" which aren't even close to authentic to start with.

There's also various 200gr supersonic (1,100fps or more) JHPs that I don't recommend. They'll be more noise than they're worth since some great subsonics are available as stated above. That said, the 200s will do just fine on target.

All of the JHPs will be SAFER in bystander-dense situation. They're less likely to go through the target into somebody else, and yeah, that happens.

For wilderness carry in a modern SAA-strength-class gun, the 255 to 260gr SWCs going about 1,000fps make lots of sense, and would do quite well for personal defense should that come up. They'll also do tolerably well against a black bear, real well against cougar and might stop a decent-size piggie in a pinch. For urban carry they'd be insane, the odds they'll blow through a human at lethal speeds on the other side are about 100%.

Any handgun is fundamentally inadequate. OK? They're not good stoppers. They don't fling bullets fast enough to damage tissue AROUND the bullet's path - that takes something around 2,100fps or so for "hydrostatic shock". Opinions vary on that point, but the thing is, the fastest common handgun rounds you can score (357maggie doing 1,600fps) is NOT going to get into hydrostatic shock territory.

So you ought to be more picky about ammo.

That's my take anyhow.

December 28, 2008, 02:12 AM	#7
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,417	Modern "cowboy action" ammo is NOT designed to duplicate "old west" conditions. At the height of what we think of as the "old west" period (1873-1890ish) there were NO 45LC leverguns or long guns of any type, other than maybe a one-off custom here and there. That's because the 45LC rim was too narrow for reliable extraction. 45LC leverguns do exist today, and "cowboy action" ammo is designed so as not to go past 1,000fps in a rifle barrel. Cowboy action shooting sports use metal targets at close range with lots of bystanders - it's a safety issue that has NOTHING whatsoever to do with authenticity. That load at 950fps is a good deal more dangerous than the same at 700/750. Next...there are some spectacularly good modern loads in 45LC. Why the hell not carry them? The best is likely the Speer 250gr "giant hollowpoint from hell" JHP. It will do about 900-950 from a typical 4" barrel, and will expand reliably from 850 on up. It's a scaled up version of the 135gr 38+P "snubby special" concept. I think it's likely this is the most deadly subsonic load in existence in anything like a standard caliber. Winchester's 225gr Silvertip is also a good load and still stays subsonic. It's not as good as the Speer 250 but it's worlds ahead of "cowboy loads" which aren't even close to authentic to start with. There's also various 200gr supersonic (1,100fps or more) JHPs that I don't recommend. They'll be more noise than they're worth since some great subsonics are available as stated above. That said, the 200s will do just fine on target. All of the JHPs will be SAFER in bystander-dense situation. They're less likely to go through the target into somebody else, and yeah, that happens. For wilderness carry in a modern SAA-strength-class gun, the 255 to 260gr SWCs going about 1,000fps make lots of sense, and would do quite well for personal defense should that come up. They'll also do tolerably well against a black bear, real well against cougar and might stop a decent-size piggie in a pinch. For urban carry they'd be insane, the odds they'll blow through a human at lethal speeds on the other side are about 100%. Any handgun is fundamentally inadequate. OK? They're not good stoppers. They don't fling bullets fast enough to damage tissue AROUND the bullet's path - that takes something around 2,100fps or so for "hydrostatic shock". Opinions vary on that point, but the thing is, the fastest common handgun rounds you can score (357maggie doing 1,600fps) is NOT going to get into hydrostatic shock territory. So you ought to be more picky about ammo. That's my take anyhow. __________________ Jim March