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Old July 24, 2008, 01:12 PM   #58
BillCA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2004
Location: Silicon Valley, Ca
Posts: 7,117
Quote:
It's not the Barney you have to worry about, Bill, it is the highly trained and keyed up SWAT-type that has seen way to many movements "in a slow deliberate manner" turn into attacks to allow them, particularly when you still have a weapon in your hand. You are already demonstrating that you will not comply with the officer's lawful orders (drop the gun), don't expect it to get any better when you make it worse (do not move).
So... you're saying an officer is justified in shooting when ever he sees someone move in some manner that HE thinks constitutes preparation for an attack? Even if that move constitutes part of "obeying" the officer's orders? That's bogus.

I'm much more worried about those officers opening fire on my fuzzy-behind if that gun goes off when it hits the pavement. "Carry a drop safe gun"? Most of them are pretty good, however any part can fail when subjected to sharp impact stress. This is NOT when I want to test how good the the manufacturer's QC department is.

Quote:
it is the highly trained and keyed up SWAT-type
If said SWAT type is "Highly Trained" and will shoot someone for attempting to carefully put down the gun while holding it by the muzzle or the end of the triggerguard then I suggest we have a serious problem in this country... or we need a new definition of "highly trained".

Or maybe we should be striving for "highly brained" instead of highly trained. I expect SWAT types to have better discipline and better tactics than that.

Quote:
There is the problem. I'm not ordinarily twitchy, but you are not complying with my order to disarm. In fact, you are acting directly contrary to my requests and placing me in further danger of my life. That might make me sort of twitchy.
So, based on the above statement, when you say "Drop the gun" and the subject holds their arm out, gun by the muzzle and begins to bend down to put it on the ground, you get nervous because he didn't comply exactly with your instructions? Then please tell me what I should do when an officer says:
"Freeze!" - should I chatter my teeth and shiver?
"Don't Move! Show me your hands!" - Well, which one?

Since I dislocated my shoulder last March, I've been unable to raise my right arm above my head. If you tell me to put my arms "all the way up", I still can't get the right hand any higher than my head. Does that give you legal cause to shoot me? I think not.

Based on your statements, how about we codify it in law? If a subject drops the gun after police tell him to do so and it discharges, any officer who fires on the subject will be charged with homicide or attempted homicide, as appropriate. Officers who shoot the subject and their agencies will be severably liable for the injuries sustained.

That seems fair. After all, I'm only doing what you told me to do.

And before I'm accused of cop-bashing here, I'm a big supporter of LE, though I am also a critic of some of the policies and some of the thinking in LE circles as well.
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