The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - An update on my extraction problems (45ACP)

maillemaker · March 1, 2011, 12:48 PM

OK, some of you may recall my "bullet size" post from earlier:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=441209

I purchased the Lee FCD and ran all my ammo through it, and went to the range last weekend.

I fired about 150 rounds, and I had 3 failures to extract. I believe I understand the problem now, and I do believe there is a problem with the Lee 230 grain rumble-groove RN bullet profile. I'm hesitant to make this pronouncement since I am so new at reloading, but I think I can safely say I have nailed down the problem that my Ruger P90 is having with these bullets.

Here is a link to all the pictures of the jams:

http://imgur.com/a/U0Uq4#0CenH

2 of the failures to extract were caused by the extracted case rim catching on and stopping on the case mouth of the top cartridge in the magazine. 1 of the failures to extract were caused by the extracted case rim catching on the "bulge" on the case body. But even on the round that stopped on "the bulge", there was a ding in the case mouth and a skid mark on the case.

I am fairly certain at this point that the extracted cases are sometimes catching on the case mouth. Most of the time when a jam happens it is because the case stops on the case mouth of the next round in the magazine, but sometimes it catches on the case mouth just enough to slow down and then it skids to a stop on the case wall.

I believe the problem stems from the fact that the Lee 230 grain LRN bullet mold (TL452-230-2R) has a pronounced step at the base of the bullet ogive. On my bullets, that step is .016" tall, all the way around. The base of the bullet ogive is .419, while the shoulder is .452, which makes the shoulder as it is. When you add brass thickness on top of that, about .01, you are looking at a step of .026 or so.

Another way to look at this is that I am crimping my case mouth to about .469. The Lyman handbook lists the 45 ACP case mouth as .473. The base of the bullet ogive is .419, which again is a step of .025-.027 inches.

Now if you look at the Lee Truncated Cone mold, or the Round Nose with traditional lube grooves ( TL-452-230-TC and 452-228-1R), you will see that these bullet noses terminate with an outer diameter the same as the bullet shoulder - .452. In fact, I think my next step is to try the Truncated Cone mold (it is available with tumble lube grooves) and see if it feeds well in my P90. My P90 shoots hollowpoints with no problem so I expect it to shoot Truncated Cone no problem.

Failing this, I'm considering a custom mold where the bullet ogive base is .452.

What do you all think?

Steve

March 1, 2011, 12:48 PM	#1
maillemaker Senior Member Join Date: August 30, 2010 Posts: 1,635	An update on my extraction problems (45ACP) OK, some of you may recall my "bullet size" post from earlier: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=441209 I purchased the Lee FCD and ran all my ammo through it, and went to the range last weekend. I fired about 150 rounds, and I had 3 failures to extract. I believe I understand the problem now, and I do believe there is a problem with the Lee 230 grain rumble-groove RN bullet profile. I'm hesitant to make this pronouncement since I am so new at reloading, but I think I can safely say I have nailed down the problem that my Ruger P90 is having with these bullets. Here is a link to all the pictures of the jams: http://imgur.com/a/U0Uq4#0CenH 2 of the failures to extract were caused by the extracted case rim catching on and stopping on the case mouth of the top cartridge in the magazine. 1 of the failures to extract were caused by the extracted case rim catching on the "bulge" on the case body. But even on the round that stopped on "the bulge", there was a ding in the case mouth and a skid mark on the case. I am fairly certain at this point that the extracted cases are sometimes catching on the case mouth. Most of the time when a jam happens it is because the case stops on the case mouth of the next round in the magazine, but sometimes it catches on the case mouth just enough to slow down and then it skids to a stop on the case wall. I believe the problem stems from the fact that the Lee 230 grain LRN bullet mold (TL452-230-2R) has a pronounced step at the base of the bullet ogive. On my bullets, that step is .016" tall, all the way around. The base of the bullet ogive is .419, while the shoulder is .452, which makes the shoulder as it is. When you add brass thickness on top of that, about .01, you are looking at a step of .026 or so. Another way to look at this is that I am crimping my case mouth to about .469. The Lyman handbook lists the 45 ACP case mouth as .473. The base of the bullet ogive is .419, which again is a step of .025-.027 inches. Now if you look at the Lee Truncated Cone mold, or the Round Nose with traditional lube grooves ( TL-452-230-TC and 452-228-1R), you will see that these bullet noses terminate with an outer diameter the same as the bullet shoulder - .452. In fact, I think my next step is to try the Truncated Cone mold (it is available with tumble lube grooves) and see if it feeds well in my P90. My P90 shoots hollowpoints with no problem so I expect it to shoot Truncated Cone no problem. Failing this, I'm considering a custom mold where the bullet ogive base is .452. What do you all think? Steve