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thedaddycat · February 16, 2012, 10:35 AM

When using a collet neck sizing die and a LCT 4-hole press, what order of operations do you use? I can use a Challenger breech lock press along with the LCT. I have not yet used the collet dies, having ordered them yesterday. I will have them for every bolt action chambering that I have a rifle for.

Let me start by describing what I have done so far. When I start working with a batch of fired brass, it gets sorted into bags of like head stamps. I realize that the sorting could be done at any stage, but I do it first.

I clamp the Challenger press to my welding table (that's one that will never move, no matter how hard you use the press) and set up the universal decapping die in it. I set up two bins to the left of the press, using my left hand to handle the brass and my right to work the press handle. I take a bag of brass and dump it into the left bin, then as they get decapped they are moved to the right bin.

Once all cases have been decapped, I either swage the crimps out of them if needed or clean the primer pockets. This is why I sort by headstamps first, so that all the milsurp brass that needs the crimps swaged out is not mixed in with commercial brass that does not need to be swaged. If I need to swage them, the swager die is put into the Challenger press and they all get run through it. If not, I chuck the primer pocket cleaner up in my drill and set the speed to the slowest it can go. The cases then get the primer pockets cleaned and move from the right bin back to the left bin. When they are all back in the left bin all cases from that batch have been decapped and had the primer pockets cleaned/swaged, and they are now ready for the next step.

At this point I use the ultrasonic cleaner to clean the brass. It does a decent job of getting most everything out of the interiors and primer pockets. I use a solution of 6 cups of water to 1.5 cups of white vinegar, and about a tablespoon of dishwashing soap. I need to play around with it some to get the right amount of cases in my cleaner without overfilling it so I get the best cleaning and the most cases per batch. My 2.6 quart unit from Harbor Freight will hold around 150 cases of .30-06 or about 250 of .223.

I had also been trimming to length and chamfering and deburring the brass but have found out that this should be done after FL resizing. Oh well, I guess I just got a lot of practice.

Yesterday I took the brass that I had prepped over to my friend's house and we put some .30-06 rounds together. Using the LCT press, the dies were set up as follows: FL sizing, Universal expander, buller seater, factory crimp.

To recap so far, this is the order of operations I use now:

Sort, decap, PP swaged/cleaned, ultrasonic clean, FL size, prime, expand, charge, seat, crimp.

So now come the questions:
The collet die has a mandrel with a pin. Is this pin meant to act as a decapper or is it just to align the mandrel with the flash hole?
When neck sizing with the collet die, is the FL sizing die used at all? I've read where the shoulder should be bumped back by .001-.002, and it seems like you would have to use the FL sizing die to do that. Can the FL die be set to bump the shoulder without sizing the whole case?
I looked at videos for setting up a collet die where it was adjusted just enough to get the bullet to be snug in the neck. Does this eliminate the need for the expander die? I'm kind of confused on this because the mandrel is a fixed size so even if the collet were adjusted tighter the neck bore should be constant, shouldn't it?
The collet die sets include what Lee calls a "Dead Length Seater" die. From the description of the collet die sets on Lee's site:

"Maximum accuracy is usually achieved by seating the bullet out far enough to touch or almost touch the rifling. This provides the shot start pressure normally supplied by the crimp."

This seems to imply that you don't need the crimp die. Is this just applicable to bench rest shooting, where you only have one round at a time in the rifle? If shooting in something like a Service Rifle match where you have rounds in the mag that you don't want to set back under recoil, would you still use the FCD?

Finally, if using the LCT (4 hole) and Challenger presses, how would you set things up and what order of operations would you use? I will probably be processing lots of up to 100 cases at a time, so doing the batch method is not an issue. I can perform any step either singly on the Challenger or as part of a four step process on the LCT press.

Thanks for any input and insight that you more experienced loaders can give to someone just starting out.

February 16, 2012, 10:35 AM	#1
thedaddycat Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 2011 Posts: 388	What order of operations? When using a collet neck sizing die and a LCT 4-hole press, what order of operations do you use? I can use a Challenger breech lock press along with the LCT. I have not yet used the collet dies, having ordered them yesterday. I will have them for every bolt action chambering that I have a rifle for. Let me start by describing what I have done so far. When I start working with a batch of fired brass, it gets sorted into bags of like head stamps. I realize that the sorting could be done at any stage, but I do it first. I clamp the Challenger press to my welding table (that's one that will never move, no matter how hard you use the press) and set up the universal decapping die in it. I set up two bins to the left of the press, using my left hand to handle the brass and my right to work the press handle. I take a bag of brass and dump it into the left bin, then as they get decapped they are moved to the right bin. Once all cases have been decapped, I either swage the crimps out of them if needed or clean the primer pockets. This is why I sort by headstamps first, so that all the milsurp brass that needs the crimps swaged out is not mixed in with commercial brass that does not need to be swaged. If I need to swage them, the swager die is put into the Challenger press and they all get run through it. If not, I chuck the primer pocket cleaner up in my drill and set the speed to the slowest it can go. The cases then get the primer pockets cleaned and move from the right bin back to the left bin. When they are all back in the left bin all cases from that batch have been decapped and had the primer pockets cleaned/swaged, and they are now ready for the next step. At this point I use the ultrasonic cleaner to clean the brass. It does a decent job of getting most everything out of the interiors and primer pockets. I use a solution of 6 cups of water to 1.5 cups of white vinegar, and about a tablespoon of dishwashing soap. I need to play around with it some to get the right amount of cases in my cleaner without overfilling it so I get the best cleaning and the most cases per batch. My 2.6 quart unit from Harbor Freight will hold around 150 cases of .30-06 or about 250 of .223. I had also been trimming to length and chamfering and deburring the brass but have found out that this should be done after FL resizing. Oh well, I guess I just got a lot of practice. Yesterday I took the brass that I had prepped over to my friend's house and we put some .30-06 rounds together. Using the LCT press, the dies were set up as follows: FL sizing, Universal expander, buller seater, factory crimp. To recap so far, this is the order of operations I use now: Sort, decap, PP swaged/cleaned, ultrasonic clean, FL size, prime, expand, charge, seat, crimp. So now come the questions: The collet die has a mandrel with a pin. Is this pin meant to act as a decapper or is it just to align the mandrel with the flash hole? When neck sizing with the collet die, is the FL sizing die used at all? I've read where the shoulder should be bumped back by .001-.002, and it seems like you would have to use the FL sizing die to do that. Can the FL die be set to bump the shoulder without sizing the whole case? I looked at videos for setting up a collet die where it was adjusted just enough to get the bullet to be snug in the neck. Does this eliminate the need for the expander die? I'm kind of confused on this because the mandrel is a fixed size so even if the collet were adjusted tighter the neck bore should be constant, shouldn't it? The collet die sets include what Lee calls a "Dead Length Seater" die. From the description of the collet die sets on Lee's site: "Maximum accuracy is usually achieved by seating the bullet out far enough to touch or almost touch the rifling. This provides the shot start pressure normally supplied by the crimp." This seems to imply that you don't need the crimp die. Is this just applicable to bench rest shooting, where you only have one round at a time in the rifle? If shooting in something like a Service Rifle match where you have rounds in the mag that you don't want to set back under recoil, would you still use the FCD? Finally, if using the LCT (4 hole) and Challenger presses, how would you set things up and what order of operations would you use? I will probably be processing lots of up to 100 cases at a time, so doing the batch method is not an issue. I can perform any step either singly on the Challenger or as part of a four step process on the LCT press. Thanks for any input and insight that you more experienced loaders can give to someone just starting out.