The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - What matters is shot placement. Actual bank robbery shooting.

**Frank Ettin** · September 2, 2011, 02:58 PM

There are four ways in which shooting an assailant stops a fight:

psychological -- "I'm shot, it hurts, I don't want to get shot any more."
massive blood loss depriving the muscles and brain of oxygen and thus significantly impairing their ability to function
breaking major skeletal support structures
damaging the central nervous system.

Depending on someone just giving up because he's been shot is iffy. Probably most fights are stopped that way, but some aren't.

Breaking major skeletal structures can quickly impair mobility, but someone with a gun can still shoot.

Hits to the central nervous system are sure and quick, but the CNS presents a small and uncertain target.

The most common and sure physiological way in which shooting someone stops him is blood loss -- depriving the brain and muscles of oxygen and nutrients, thus impairing the ability of the brain and muscles to function. Blood loss is facilitated by (1) large holes causing tissue damage; (2) getting the holes in the right places to damage major blood vessels or blood bearing organs; and (3) adequate penetration to get those holes into the blood vessels and organs which are fairly deep in the body. The problem is that blood loss takes time. People have continued to fight effectively when gravely, even mortally, wounded. So things that can speed up blood loss, more holes, bigger holes, better placed holes, etc., help.

So as a rule of thumb --

More holes are better than fewer holes.
Larger holes are better than smaller holes.
Holes in the right places are better than holes in the wrong places.
Holes that are deep enough are better than holes that aren't.
There are no magic bullets.

Because they tend to make bigger holes, and the modern ones are likely to penetrate sufficiently, I'll choose JHPs.

September 2, 2011, 02:58 PM	#21
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	There are four ways in which shooting an assailant stops a fight: psychological -- "I'm shot, it hurts, I don't want to get shot any more." massive blood loss depriving the muscles and brain of oxygen and thus significantly impairing their ability to function breaking major skeletal support structures damaging the central nervous system. Depending on someone just giving up because he's been shot is iffy. Probably most fights are stopped that way, but some aren't. Breaking major skeletal structures can quickly impair mobility, but someone with a gun can still shoot. Hits to the central nervous system are sure and quick, but the CNS presents a small and uncertain target. The most common and sure physiological way in which shooting someone stops him is blood loss -- depriving the brain and muscles of oxygen and nutrients, thus impairing the ability of the brain and muscles to function. Blood loss is facilitated by (1) large holes causing tissue damage; (2) getting the holes in the right places to damage major blood vessels or blood bearing organs; and (3) adequate penetration to get those holes into the blood vessels and organs which are fairly deep in the body. The problem is that blood loss takes time. People have continued to fight effectively when gravely, even mortally, wounded. So things that can speed up blood loss, more holes, bigger holes, better placed holes, etc., help. So as a rule of thumb -- More holes are better than fewer holes. Larger holes are better than smaller holes. Holes in the right places are better than holes in the wrong places. Holes that are deep enough are better than holes that aren't. There are no magic bullets. Because they tend to make bigger holes, and the modern ones are likely to penetrate sufficiently, I'll choose JHPs.