The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - How can I get my 308 reloads to be as good as out of the box168gr Fed GMM

Rimfire5 · June 12, 2014, 07:37 AM

I'm not sure whether you are trying to just duplicate Federal match ammo or trying to get the best accuracy out of your rifle.

You've picked the 'gold standard' of .308 ammo to try to duplicate.
You may not know that there are actually 2 different Federal Premium Gold Match factory ammos that use 168 SMK bullets. The older, now discontinued, Blue and Buff colored box was loaded at 2600 fps muzzle velocity and the newer Maroon and Gold box is loaded at 2650 fps.

I have used both versions and found my rifles seemed to shoot the older 2600 fps ammo slightly better. That led me to testing velocity variations to see what the rifle liked best. I still have a few boxes of the old Blue and Buff around to test new rifles.

First, have you determined whether the Federal Premium Gold Match SMK factory ammo uses Federal 210M or 210 Large rifle primers. For me the 210M match primers gets slightly better results.

I have 3 Savage bolt action .308s that I load for and have loaded just under 9,000 .308 rounds over the last 3.6 years. I have used Federal, Remington, Winchester, Nosler and Lapua brass with 210 and 210M primers and have gotten good results with all of them so the brass wasn't the differentiator. I have settled on Lapua brass with Federal 210M match primers based upon results and because Lapua brass seems to keep consistent neck tension over more reloads per case. In fact, my Lapua brass cases get retired when the primer pockets get loose after about 16 reloads not when the necks split or neck tension begins to vary as is the case with the other brands of cases.

Two of the Savages have more 175 grain bullets in (9) their top 25 loads than the 168 grain bullets (8) and the other has more 168 grain bullets (23) in its top 25 loads. The other bullets are all 150/155 grain bullets.

Almost all of my best 168 gr loads (all better group averages at 100 yards than factory Federal Gold Match 168 gr SMKs) with the .308s with 5 different powders. The 8 top 25 loads with two of the rifle are 168 gr loads and are generally loaded slower than factory speeds. The slowest load in the most accurate 168 grain loads was 2525 fps and the fastest load of the top 168 loads with each bolt action rifle is 2625 fps. The other rifle has 23 of 25 of its top load using 168 grain bullets and the fastest 5 are 2675 fps. It is what the rifles perform best with using the powders that I have tested. Only one of the rifles has some of its 168 grain loads faster than 2650 fps muzzle velocity. That rifle also happens to have a very deep chamber compared to the two other newer Savage rifles.

I have had the best results with N140 and H4895 powders with all three rifles. 80% of the top 25 loads with each rifle used N140 powder.
Reloader 15 and Varget have had better than factory results with some loads but not good enough compared to N140 and H4895 to make the top 25 loads in each of my .308 rifles. The preponderance of N140 in the top 25 loads may be due to its superior metering versus the larger grain powders.

If you want to get the best accuracy from your rifles, you probably need to experiment with different powders rather than just pulling factory ammo apart. Factory ammo tends to favor velocity over accuracy because velocity sells. My rifles seem to shoot best a speeds slower than factory speeds. Most shoot best when the seating depth is matched to the individual rifle's chamber depth. My rifles generally like to have bullets seated 20 thousandths shorter than the measured chamber depth.

I think your approach to duplicating the Federal Gold Match SMK ammo to achieve the best accuracy is not practical because:
1) you probably can't duplicate the neck tension of the factory after pulling the bullets and resizing.
2) it is too expensive to waste the good factory ammo that sells for up to $36 a box. I'm loading my most accurate loads for $ 9.40 a box.
3) there are probably better powders you could find that your rifle prefers if you did some experimentation.
4) you can't buy the exact powder over the counter that Federal uses even presuming that they consistently use the same powder mix over a long period of time. (I have also been told by three different people that claim to know that Federal uses "xxx" powder in their Gold Match .308 ammo - all claimed a different powder. So much for people in the know.) Good luck finding out what Federal actually buys each time they buy their huge lots of powder.

Admittedly, I have experimented with powders, velocity, and seating depth to get the best accuracy. I have never tried to use "factory powder", mainly because I could never afford to buy that much factory ammo to pull apart and, secondly, I never believed that the factory ammo necessarily used the best available powder.

June 12, 2014, 07:37 AM	#11
Rimfire5 Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2009 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 922	I'm not sure whether you are trying to just duplicate Federal match ammo or trying to get the best accuracy out of your rifle. You've picked the 'gold standard' of .308 ammo to try to duplicate. You may not know that there are actually 2 different Federal Premium Gold Match factory ammos that use 168 SMK bullets. The older, now discontinued, Blue and Buff colored box was loaded at 2600 fps muzzle velocity and the newer Maroon and Gold box is loaded at 2650 fps. I have used both versions and found my rifles seemed to shoot the older 2600 fps ammo slightly better. That led me to testing velocity variations to see what the rifle liked best. I still have a few boxes of the old Blue and Buff around to test new rifles. First, have you determined whether the Federal Premium Gold Match SMK factory ammo uses Federal 210M or 210 Large rifle primers. For me the 210M match primers gets slightly better results. I have 3 Savage bolt action .308s that I load for and have loaded just under 9,000 .308 rounds over the last 3.6 years. I have used Federal, Remington, Winchester, Nosler and Lapua brass with 210 and 210M primers and have gotten good results with all of them so the brass wasn't the differentiator. I have settled on Lapua brass with Federal 210M match primers based upon results and because Lapua brass seems to keep consistent neck tension over more reloads per case. In fact, my Lapua brass cases get retired when the primer pockets get loose after about 16 reloads not when the necks split or neck tension begins to vary as is the case with the other brands of cases. Two of the Savages have more 175 grain bullets in (9) their top 25 loads than the 168 grain bullets (8) and the other has more 168 grain bullets (23) in its top 25 loads. The other bullets are all 150/155 grain bullets. Almost all of my best 168 gr loads (all better group averages at 100 yards than factory Federal Gold Match 168 gr SMKs) with the .308s with 5 different powders. The 8 top 25 loads with two of the rifle are 168 gr loads and are generally loaded slower than factory speeds. The slowest load in the most accurate 168 grain loads was 2525 fps and the fastest load of the top 168 loads with each bolt action rifle is 2625 fps. The other rifle has 23 of 25 of its top load using 168 grain bullets and the fastest 5 are 2675 fps. It is what the rifles perform best with using the powders that I have tested. Only one of the rifles has some of its 168 grain loads faster than 2650 fps muzzle velocity. That rifle also happens to have a very deep chamber compared to the two other newer Savage rifles. I have had the best results with N140 and H4895 powders with all three rifles. 80% of the top 25 loads with each rifle used N140 powder. Reloader 15 and Varget have had better than factory results with some loads but not good enough compared to N140 and H4895 to make the top 25 loads in each of my .308 rifles. The preponderance of N140 in the top 25 loads may be due to its superior metering versus the larger grain powders. If you want to get the best accuracy from your rifles, you probably need to experiment with different powders rather than just pulling factory ammo apart. Factory ammo tends to favor velocity over accuracy because velocity sells. My rifles seem to shoot best a speeds slower than factory speeds. Most shoot best when the seating depth is matched to the individual rifle's chamber depth. My rifles generally like to have bullets seated 20 thousandths shorter than the measured chamber depth. I think your approach to duplicating the Federal Gold Match SMK ammo to achieve the best accuracy is not practical because: 1) you probably can't duplicate the neck tension of the factory after pulling the bullets and resizing. 2) it is too expensive to waste the good factory ammo that sells for up to $36 a box. I'm loading my most accurate loads for $ 9.40 a box. 3) there are probably better powders you could find that your rifle prefers if you did some experimentation. 4) you can't buy the exact powder over the counter that Federal uses even presuming that they consistently use the same powder mix over a long period of time. (I have also been told by three different people that claim to know that Federal uses "xxx" powder in their Gold Match .308 ammo - all claimed a different powder. So much for people in the know.) Good luck finding out what Federal actually buys each time they buy their huge lots of powder. Admittedly, I have experimented with powders, velocity, and seating depth to get the best accuracy. I have never tried to use "factory powder", mainly because I could never afford to buy that much factory ammo to pull apart and, secondly, I never believed that the factory ammo necessarily used the best available powder.