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Powderman · April 7, 2011, 01:30 AM

To the best of my knowledge, there are three major incidents involving active shooters that have significantly changed policies and procedures in law enforcement, all across the board.

1. Newhall Massacre

The poor tactics used by the responding officers contributed greatly to the perps gunning them down.

This incident gave birth to the high-risk/felony stop used nationwide by every law enforcement agency.

2. FBI shootout, Miami
This incident resulted in Federal agents losing their lives, and forced an in-depth examination on the ammunition issued to law enforcement officers. This was not a failure of tactics, but of the ammunition used--both Platt and Matix suffered many incapacitating and fatal wounds--problem was that they weren't fatal FAST enough.

This incident gave birth to the re-examination of duty sidearms, with the result of much better performing ammunition in high-capacity platforms.

3. Hollywood shootout

An absolute nightmare for the responding officers! Here, you have resolute gunmen, armed with select fire weapons in military calibers wearing effective body armor. Absolutely no problems with tactics or training--again, there just wasn't enough firepower available to the officers on scene.

This shootout led to the adaption of the patrol carbine--a rifle-caliber short rifle capable of good accuracy and tremendous stopping power. It also led to command staff re-thinking the availability of even heavier firepower to responding officers in the case of barricaded or heavily armored subjects.

To answer the OP, no law enforcement agency that I know OK's the .38 Special RNL round (aka, "the Widowmaker", because it got cops killed) for issue anymore. For those few officers that still carry revolvers, it's usually a good .38+P round at the minimum.

I have, for instance, been issued the following duty ammunition:

230 grain Speer Gold Dot .45 ACP (duty sidearm)
180 grain Speer Gold Dot .40 S&W (backup weapon)
55 grain Federal Tactical Rifle Urban (TRU) .223 Remington (patrol rifle)
175 grain Federal Gold Medal Match .308 Winchester (precision rifle)

All of these have been tested by numerous law enforcement agencies, and yield superior performance.

April 7, 2011, 01:30 AM	#13
Powderman Senior Member Join Date: September 7, 2001 Location: Washington State Posts: 2,166	To the best of my knowledge, there are three major incidents involving active shooters that have significantly changed policies and procedures in law enforcement, all across the board. 1. Newhall Massacre The poor tactics used by the responding officers contributed greatly to the perps gunning them down. This incident gave birth to the high-risk/felony stop used nationwide by every law enforcement agency. 2. FBI shootout, Miami This incident resulted in Federal agents losing their lives, and forced an in-depth examination on the ammunition issued to law enforcement officers. This was not a failure of tactics, but of the ammunition used--both Platt and Matix suffered many incapacitating and fatal wounds--problem was that they weren't fatal FAST enough. This incident gave birth to the re-examination of duty sidearms, with the result of much better performing ammunition in high-capacity platforms. 3. Hollywood shootout An absolute nightmare for the responding officers! Here, you have resolute gunmen, armed with select fire weapons in military calibers wearing effective body armor. Absolutely no problems with tactics or training--again, there just wasn't enough firepower available to the officers on scene. This shootout led to the adaption of the patrol carbine--a rifle-caliber short rifle capable of good accuracy and tremendous stopping power. It also led to command staff re-thinking the availability of even heavier firepower to responding officers in the case of barricaded or heavily armored subjects. To answer the OP, no law enforcement agency that I know OK's the .38 Special RNL round (aka, "the Widowmaker", because it got cops killed) for issue anymore. For those few officers that still carry revolvers, it's usually a good .38+P round at the minimum. I have, for instance, been issued the following duty ammunition: 230 grain Speer Gold Dot .45 ACP (duty sidearm) 180 grain Speer Gold Dot .40 S&W (backup weapon) 55 grain Federal Tactical Rifle Urban (TRU) .223 Remington (patrol rifle) 175 grain Federal Gold Medal Match .308 Winchester (precision rifle) All of these have been tested by numerous law enforcement agencies, and yield superior performance. __________________ Hiding in plain sight...