View Single Post
Old July 21, 2013, 12:18 PM   #54
44 AMP
Staff
 
Join Date: March 11, 2006
Location: Upper US
Posts: 28,846
I've read through the thread, and others like it. And my personal opinion remains unchanged. And that is the question only has meaning IF you include the specific gun used in it.

True that 1911 type systems dominate the defensive and service class auto pistol designs, BUT not all handguns use this system. AND, not all the levers and placements are equal.

If you are going to restrict the debate to 1911s or guns that use a similar type of lever for a slide release, you should say so in the question. IF you aren't restricting it to these kinds of guns, then the question has no merit.

Remember that the handgunning world is not composed exclusively of 1911s Sigs, Berettas and GLocks. It is also not limited to duty class pistols. And though heavily focused on, defensive use (and tactics of reloads) are a very SMALL part of general handgun use. An important part, but not the only part.

For those who think that using the lever is the only way to do it, what do you use when the gun doesn't have that feature? (and don't say use another gun, that's ducking the question)

Since the OP does not limit us to just common duty guns, all autos are fair to consider. For you "slingshot is a bad habit" guys, how do you load/reload a Luger? Or a Mauser HSc (which locks open when empty, but shuts when you remove the empty magazine?) For that matter, what about all the pocket pistols (which do get defensive service sometimes) that do not lock open when empty? No option but the slingshot, there.

Find me the human that can actually use the slide stop lever on a Desert Eagle MK I to release the slide. I'm sure there must be some, but slingshotting is soo much easier.

The military has changed its "official" recommendations back and forth, over time. People were found to fumble the lever in combat, so they said slingshot the slide. Then they learned people were fumbling slingshotting the slide, so they said use the lever. The fact is that some people in combat are going to fumble with either method. And there is the fact that no matter how you train them, in the field, on their own, each user is going to do what they think best, in each situation.

There is something to be said for the slingshot method, in so far as consistency of training is concerned. It works with every gun. But there is no free lunch. What we consider acceptable today is different than the past, and likely will be different from the future as well.

Remember that in the past, keeping a shooting grip and keeping the empty gun on the target (as much as possible) wasn't the priority it is thought to be today. And while doing that can save seconds (or more likely fractions of a second0, can be important to winning a match and may be important in combat/defense, it wasn't focused on like we do today.

After all, during a reload, your pistol is empty, so nothing you do during a reload matters, except the time it takes to return the pistol to a firing condition, and back on target.

Design philosophies differ. The manual of arms differs due to the specific features on the guns used. One system might have advantages over another in specific situations but real world conditions often cancel that out to one degree or another.

Germany didn't lose WWII because Lugers don't have a slide stop or because P.38s use a heel clip mag catch. There was a lot more involved than that. And I doubt you can come up with any proof that anyone lost a gunfight with a Luger or P.38 because of having to slingshot the toggle or whatever. There's more to it than just that.

As to what Browning did, or did not think about when he designed the 1911, I won't even hazard a guess, absent any documented proof from him, personally.

However, I do wish to point out that the primary customer was the US Army, and at the time, the Cavalry was still the prestige arm and had a great deal of influence. And they were pretty insistent the pistol be capable of being safely operated with one hand, and on horseback.

And since maintaining a good shooting grip and keep the empty pistol pointed at the enemy during a reload were not considered vitally important items in those days, I find it entirely logical that Browning intended the slide stop to be used to release the slide. And, it kept the customer happy.

Times change, attitudes change, designs change, some of what was "right" then is "wrong" today, and some of what is "right" today seems unnecessary to me, but then, I'm no expert, I'm a high drag, low speed operator, these days. I slingshot the guns I have to, slingshot the guns that are easier to do that with than use the slide release, and use the slide release on guns where it is easiest. I would suggest you do what works best for you, and the specific gun you are holding, and don't worry overmuch about what the rest of the world (probably with different guns) is doing.
__________________
All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.
44 AMP is offline  
 
Page generated in 0.03083 seconds with 8 queries