The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post

scbair · May 25, 2004, 08:25 AM

I've owned a few derringers, and since you generously included the NAA minis in the definition, I'll admit to carrying one.

That is, as a backup, or when I can't figure out some way to conceal at least a S&W M642.

My own experience, and the rationale for my choice:

I need a firearm for situations where ANY truly effective sidearm is too large (including the mini 9s and J-frame snubbies). The only candidates are derringers/NAA minis and pocket autos (of the Seecamp/KelTec P32 genre).

I distrust pocket autos. If you trust yours, fine; I just don't! The combination of modest cartridge power levels (imparting modest energy to reciprocate the slide) and pocket lint (even in a pocket holster) give me reliability concerns. My opinion (or phobia??); YMMV.

Of the derringers, the only currently produced specimens that I've examined and "passed" quality-wise and safety-wise are made by Bond Arms, American Derringer and NAA. The Bond Arms model I examined felt as heavy as a steel framed snub .38, and was pretty thick, too. The term "built like a battleship" about covers it, and I'm sure that weight would contribute to controlling heavy calibers well (no, I haven't actually fired one).

I picked up an American Derringer alloy-framed .45 ACP model (I think it weighs 10 oz.). With a thin set of walnut stock panels, it is significantly flatter than any snubnosed revolver, and as light as the scandium-framed versions. It also throws .45s! Unfortunately, its recoil can only be described as "painful." I regularly shoot 300 and 320 grain .44s out of a short-barreled Ruger Vaquero - no problem! That little .45 derringer just plain hurts! Accuracy? I can hit a paper plate at 7 yards, IF i take the trouble to note which barrel wil fire first. The bottom barrel shoots several inches high; the upper barrel shoots several inches higher than the lower barrel. Not exactly confidence-inspiring. Two-shot capacity is also a concern.

Finally, the NAA offerings (and there are several). I've owned a .22 LR model with 1-1/8" barrel for years; it's precision workmanship is fascinating. Fired it a few times and discovered it is too tiny to manipulate effectively. After reviewing the ballistics of .22LR rounds from the short barrel, No problem; it's a showpice, not for carryin'.

Of course, the .22 short model is even less suitable for defense (but maybe higher "cool" factor; hmmmm . . .).

Thanks to Jim March, I gave a Black Widow a tryout. I purchased a used specimen for a good price. Well-used, it is still tight, but delivered 1-2 failures to fire out of each box of .22WMR ammo. Still, very acceptable groups at out to 25 yards, and easily manipulated and controlled. Even lighter than the .45 double derringer, and as flat (the grips/cylinder are no thicker than the grips/hinge area of the .45).

OK, I also carry a folding knife (Spyderco Civilian) that will work pretty well at arm's length/bad breath range (I regularly practice deploying it; defensive moves with this blade are pretty basic; swipe at the object that is threatening you and the Civilian rips it up!). I want accuracy at greater range out of my handgun.

It's a no brainer, for me. The Black Widow disappears in my pocket, but allows me to deliver five .22 WMRs at approx. 1200 fps on-target at out to 25 yards. Hopefully, that'll buy me time to take cover (or reach my shotgun!) The perfect mouse gun for a dirty ol' rat like me!

May 25, 2004, 08:25 AM	#12
scbair Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Posts: 72	I've owned a few derringers, and since you generously included the NAA minis in the definition, I'll admit to carrying one. That is, as a backup, or when I can't figure out some way to conceal at least a S&W M642. My own experience, and the rationale for my choice: I need a firearm for situations where ANY truly effective sidearm is too large (including the mini 9s and J-frame snubbies). The only candidates are derringers/NAA minis and pocket autos (of the Seecamp/KelTec P32 genre). I distrust pocket autos. If you trust yours, fine; I just don't! The combination of modest cartridge power levels (imparting modest energy to reciprocate the slide) and pocket lint (even in a pocket holster) give me reliability concerns. My opinion (or phobia??); YMMV. Of the derringers, the only currently produced specimens that I've examined and "passed" quality-wise and safety-wise are made by Bond Arms, American Derringer and NAA. The Bond Arms model I examined felt as heavy as a steel framed snub .38, and was pretty thick, too. The term "built like a battleship" about covers it, and I'm sure that weight would contribute to controlling heavy calibers well (no, I haven't actually fired one). I picked up an American Derringer alloy-framed .45 ACP model (I think it weighs 10 oz.). With a thin set of walnut stock panels, it is significantly flatter than any snubnosed revolver, and as light as the scandium-framed versions. It also throws .45s! Unfortunately, its recoil can only be described as "painful." I regularly shoot 300 and 320 grain .44s out of a short-barreled Ruger Vaquero - no problem! That little .45 derringer just plain hurts! Accuracy? I can hit a paper plate at 7 yards, IF i take the trouble to note which barrel wil fire first. The bottom barrel shoots several inches high; the upper barrel shoots several inches higher than the lower barrel. Not exactly confidence-inspiring. Two-shot capacity is also a concern. Finally, the NAA offerings (and there are several). I've owned a .22 LR model with 1-1/8" barrel for years; it's precision workmanship is fascinating. Fired it a few times and discovered it is too tiny to manipulate effectively. After reviewing the ballistics of .22LR rounds from the short barrel, No problem; it's a showpice, not for carryin'. Of course, the .22 short model is even less suitable for defense (but maybe higher "cool" factor; hmmmm . . .). Thanks to Jim March, I gave a Black Widow a tryout. I purchased a used specimen for a good price. Well-used, it is still tight, but delivered 1-2 failures to fire out of each box of .22WMR ammo. Still, very acceptable groups at out to 25 yards, and easily manipulated and controlled. Even lighter than the .45 double derringer, and as flat (the grips/cylinder are no thicker than the grips/hinge area of the .45). OK, I also carry a folding knife (Spyderco Civilian) that will work pretty well at arm's length/bad breath range (I regularly practice deploying it; defensive moves with this blade are pretty basic; swipe at the object that is threatening you and the Civilian rips it up!). I want accuracy at greater range out of my handgun. It's a no brainer, for me. The Black Widow disappears in my pocket, but allows me to deliver five .22 WMRs at approx. 1200 fps on-target at out to 25 yards. Hopefully, that'll buy me time to take cover (or reach my shotgun!) The perfect mouse gun for a dirty ol' rat like me!