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Old July 23, 2005, 07:37 PM   #17
Sum1_Special
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 21, 2005
Posts: 243
HA! After looking all day i finally found an old thread that i remember reading long ago. Extremely informative thread!

http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17008

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Quote:
There are people that think the 7.62x25 are useless.

Well, ya know there are people right now in Russia.
that use, pistols quite often and the concensus I have heard of is that the 7.62x25 (T33 and Cz52) is one of the favorites
because it works very effectively
I guy I know from Denmark told me this when I showed him My Cz52.

Mmmmmmm
Not the first time that Soviet Armorments where wrongly concidered less that adequate.
there are not many things that the Soviets do Well.
One thing that they seem to Accell at is
Weapons.
This has been proven over and over again and again.
I understand the "opposition" to the 7.62x25 cartrige
due to it's "ethnicity"
IMHO the complaints of the 7.62x25 cartrige are Emotionally based
Not technically based.
it does exactly what they want it to do very well.
You have to understand what they wanted the pistols to do in the first place.

Have you got time for a short story?

in 1920's Soviet Union the NKVD and the new "red" army had a hodgepodge of different pistols and calibers, from .30 nagants' to
.44 russian Smith & Wesson's
They where still figguring out this whole "Central Control Idea"
They liked the 1903 colt and the .30 mauser
so, they needed a pistol to work for everybody,
Police, NKVD, and the Officer Corp of the Red army
and it had to be something that could be simple enough to make indegeniously.
they came up with the T33 Tokerev
There where several "issues" that the T33 services very well.

1) Penatration.

The NKVD officers complained that .45 bullets did not allways penatrate the thick winter coats that everyone wore in the wintertime.
one thing the Soviets did exceptionally poorly, was make consumer goods. One of the most common that they had the most trouble with was Cloth.
Have you seen how big and complicated a cloth loom is? thats a big machine.
Therefor since cloth material was not as easily avalible, The soviets made their greatcoats out of Felt.
Wool Felt, an inch thick or more if the person is wearing a double layer, then 2inches
Felt is easy to make ya cart the wool pour it in to a tray with some cemicals, roll it out and viola!
Felt is also very dense.
The 7.62x25 was very effective at penatrating layers of felt.

2) Ease of manufacture.
The steelmills only had to make one barrel stock, (.30 cal)
same for pistols, rifles, machine guns,
3) wound charcteristics
The NKVD (later to become the KGB) had thousands and thousands of officers. they could cover the entire City, even in Moscow.
Their policy was to shoot anyone that ran from them.
They didnt want to kill outright every one they shot.
So think of it, you are a counter revolutionary running dog spy! and you get questioned by a NKVD state security officer. ya slug him and run
he fires and wounds you.
you get away.
With a gun shot wound in Russia where are you going to go where they wont find you?
a good body cavity shot with a 7.62x25 will eventually incapicate most humans. and can cause a slow agonizing death.
3 days later you go to the hospital, any hospital and there they are. waiting to question you.
thats exactly what they wanted to do in he first place, but now, they know you have some reason to run.
If they want to kill you the 7.62x25 is very effective when fired directly into the brain.
(After questioning)
4) Ease of training.
Most young men in the Soviet Union where simple folk from rural areas.
Likely as not the most complicated machine the conscripts had operated prior to training would have been a ox drawn plow.
something as complicated and mysterious as a pistol would be a great technoligical leap.
So, when shooting a moveing target(like a running dog counter revolutionary)it is not necessary to teach "leading the target"
The 7.62x25 is so fast at pistol ranges that it becomes very easy to hit a moveing target.
and at greater distances too.
The cartrige in inherently accuate.
These are just a few reasons why the Soviets Chose
The T33 and the Czech Cz 52 in the 7.62x25 caliber.
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