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Michael Carlin · January 18, 1999, 09:50 AM

Hilton,

I find that my offhand position for service rifle has changed significantly with the M16/AR15. My position with weapons having a real pistol grip is firing elbow down.

During the conduct of military combat matches in Canada a couple of years ago I noticed that in the CQB "run down" phase (100 m, 75 m, 50m, 25m) that most of the really good shooters were mounting the AR15/M16 from the "ready" (a match requirement) in this manner:

The toe of the buttstock was placed high in the pocket of the shoulder (between the deltoid and the pectoral. The weapon is held into the pocket with tension using both arms. (In the "ready" match rules require the weapon be depressed at 45 degress or more acutely to the ground.)

When the rifle/carbine/smg is raised the heel of the stock is above the shoulder, this facilitates a head erect position. The erect head position makes detection of multiple targets much easier. The stance is more opne to the target, but not square on, more boxer like, about half way between bladed and square on, this facilitates a good "pocket" and allow "traverse" to both stron and weak sides, plus it seems faster to me in "search".

I have no real house clearing experience, as in Military Operations in Urban Terrain (MOUT) we train to breach the building with an explosive charge at other than a door or window, follow with a hand grenade or two, and enter shooting. (This is regular dismounted infantry not HRT training!)

But my experience in martial arts (email me if you have questions/reservations) indicates that depressing the muzzle to a position forward of the forefoot is the right answer. When you are armed with a long arm, do not "lead" the weapon around the corner or through the door. Remain back from portals/corners and pie them!

Otherwise you will wind up in a wrestling match for your weapon if you let the BG inside your "radius".

I would appreciate your evaluation of my comments as I have limited experience in this area and seek your detailed comments/guidance.

------------------
Ni ellegimit carborundum esse!

Yours In Marksmanship
http://www.1bigred.com/distinguished

michael

[This message has been edited by Michael Carlin (edited 01-18-99).]

January 18, 1999, 09:50 AM	#6
Michael Carlin Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: Fredericksburg, VA USA Posts: 193	Hilton, I find that my offhand position for service rifle has changed significantly with the M16/AR15. My position with weapons having a real pistol grip is firing elbow down. During the conduct of military combat matches in Canada a couple of years ago I noticed that in the CQB "run down" phase (100 m, 75 m, 50m, 25m) that most of the really good shooters were mounting the AR15/M16 from the "ready" (a match requirement) in this manner: The toe of the buttstock was placed high in the pocket of the shoulder (between the deltoid and the pectoral. The weapon is held into the pocket with tension using both arms. (In the "ready" match rules require the weapon be depressed at 45 degress or more acutely to the ground.) When the rifle/carbine/smg is raised the heel of the stock is above the shoulder, this facilitates a head erect position. The erect head position makes detection of multiple targets much easier. The stance is more opne to the target, but not square on, more boxer like, about half way between bladed and square on, this facilitates a good "pocket" and allow "traverse" to both stron and weak sides, plus it seems faster to me in "search". I have no real house clearing experience, as in Military Operations in Urban Terrain (MOUT) we train to breach the building with an explosive charge at other than a door or window, follow with a hand grenade or two, and enter shooting. (This is regular dismounted infantry not HRT training!) But my experience in martial arts (email me if you have questions/reservations) indicates that depressing the muzzle to a position forward of the forefoot is the right answer. When you are armed with a long arm, do not "lead" the weapon around the corner or through the door. Remain back from portals/corners and pie them! Otherwise you will wind up in a wrestling match for your weapon if you let the BG inside your "radius". I would appreciate your evaluation of my comments as I have limited experience in this area and seek your detailed comments/guidance. ------------------ Ni ellegimit carborundum esse! Yours In Marksmanship http://www.1bigred.com/distinguished michael [This message has been edited by Michael Carlin (edited 01-18-99).]