[JR47]

I don't want a hi-point for a truck gun. Thats my personal preference. I don't begrudge others that do. What does bother me is when people make statements that give less knowledgable gunowners the idea that a hi-point is just as adequate as other firearms that are 300-500 more. Its not.

As you are talking directly to me, I would like to see where I said that, please. The quoted statements from you seem to give one a different opinion of your likes.

Well, fiocchi is loaded to 1050 fps and some of the stuff from brown bear and silver bear are even hotter with heavier bullets so your theory is out the window.

Barrel length? Many companies use a 4" or even 5" barrel. That would give a false velocity in the shorter barrel Makarov. So, without that, your figures are useless. I have the figures from the two Bears, they are rated at 1000 fps on their web site. Barnaul is actually the fastest, at 1066 fps, with a 94 gr. bullet. Where ARE these mythical loads, if they aren't the new 57-N-181M.

Ones like these. http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/9x18/gel9x18.htm Uh oh... most all these rounds are above 1000fps.

Why, yes they were, and only two of them were foreign. I can give these results the same credibility as the article in Shotgun News, which quoted the velocities of current 9x18 service ammo, not the new round, at 950-1000 fps.
It may also be of note that Cor-Bon doesn't catalog the 9x18 in the 2006 listings. The Barnaul ammo tested was heavier than Barnaul lists, and faster. The Wolf ammo is also heavier than the listed loads. I would like to point out that the Hornady loading was 50 fps slower than listed, too. It would appear that barrel lengths in rated speeds aren't all the same. Other than the FMJ load, all of the tested loads failed the 12" minimum depth that the quoted boxotruth used as a criterion for "adequate penetration" in ballistic gel. So, what would you have the people believe? Your "facts" are at odds with each other.

Baloney. Most russian made mak ammo is much hotter than domestic stuff. There are plenty of people using it and I have yet to HEAR a story of a mak failing. Probably has happened, but its of such a small occurrence as to be a statistical zero. The hi-point on the other hand has both its proponents and its detractors. There are enough people who have had problems with it to justify skepticism.

Sorry, but that IS your quote. If you don't know enough to make statements safely, then you shouldn't be making them.

Great. But thats not the stuff I'm talking about.

That would help a new person to Makarovs how? I'm sure that he'd feel a LOT better after his blow-back blew up in his hands. You know what they say about a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.

Its not wild speculation. Do a search here and see how many used hi-points you see for sale. As for a use $75 hi-point, maybe just maybe if its in pristine condition, and even then its a stretch. A quality pistol is a far better investment and will hold its resale value. Thats not speculation its simply what the market dictates.

Once again, bold statements, without any facts to back it up. That's usually called opinion, sir.

My original assertion still stands. If you buy a pinto to learn how to race, then you're only going to be as good as the car. Same applies to guns. If you use a hi-point to hone your skills then you are goint to improve only as much as the hi-point allows.

Apples to oranges. If you buy a Pinto to race, it will be in the appropriate class. In that class, you may well stand a good chance of winning as your skill levels increase. No, you won't step from a Pinto Cafe Racer directly into a Trans-Am car with much hope of winning, but you're not expected to. In the Pinto, though, you will learn the basics of steering, braking, and turning that apply just as much to the Trans-Am car. On the other hand, if you save your money to buy a Trans-Am car, and then go racing, you'll be hard-pressed to gain the necessary skills. The class is much too fast and furious for a beginner.

With a High Point, you can learn the basics of safety, handling, sight alignment, trigger control, and cleaning and lubricating the weapon. You can do it just as well with the High Point as you can with a Korth, or a top-of-the-line Sig or HK. I haven't advocated buying a High Point over any other weapon. I simply point out that it works for the basics as WELL as the others. You might not like it, but you haven't disproven it, either.