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NWRed · November 7, 2002, 03:34 AM

Mr. Hayes,
Do you perform background checks on your students or not? Because for all the reasons you stated in your post, the only one that requiring a CPL to be shown would stop, is a convicted felon. And even then, without a verification process its still useless, since you can't tell if the CPL is valid or genuine.

"I am perplexed at your resistance to making sure you train with certified good guys. Do you actually want to train next to an Al-quada member, or perhaps billy bob biker with his 6 felonies to his credit?

Do you actually want the next guy to case your house to have advanced handgun and tactical training skills? Can you imagine a gang of car-jackers that can shoot like an IPSC Master? You want your wife or daughter to train next to a sexual predator? "

They change the requirements since I got my CPL? They screen for sexual predators and other criminals who aren't convicted felons?

"For me, I would rather have all the scum of the world learn their tricks of the trade from TV and the movies.

I am not worried about misdemeanor traffic offenses. As long as you can legally purchase and own a firearm, you are welcome here. If you have to go to the black market for your guns, then I would prefer you stay away from us. "

Define "black market"? Do you mean private sale?

"The requirement to show that you are a good guy, and not a convicted felon, member of a terrorist group, or any other undesireables is not so much to insure that we cover our butts, but to make sure that the classes as a whole are made up of honest, law abiding citizens wanting to learn self-defense skills."

Having a CPL does not guarantee that a person is not a member of a terrorist group, or a criminal, or an "undesirable" as you said.

"The only way to do that is for the students to show a proof of good character. We don't have access to the State of Washington CCL computor list, we just have you show your CCL."

So what you're saying is, anyone that has a CPL, whether it's revoked, or made on their home computer is good to go in your classes since that is the only proof you require and can't verify that information in this state.

"I hope this helps clear up the reasons why we require such. Believe me, being the libertarian that I am, I don't like doing this. But, I also don't want 60 minutes to show up on my door step wondering why the next DC sniper got his training here."

Perhaps when the news reporters come at ask why you train citizens in self defense, you could tell them " Because in America people aren't guilty until they're convicted of commiting a crime."

"As far as SoCal, I have 20 years in LE from Idaho and Washington, never been a cop in California, although I have trained many of them."

As I had said in my previous post, I apparently mistook you for another LEO-turned-trainer in the region.

November 7, 2002, 03:34 AM	#14
NWRed Junior Member Join Date: October 18, 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 7	Mr. Hayes, Do you perform background checks on your students or not? Because for all the reasons you stated in your post, the only one that requiring a CPL to be shown would stop, is a convicted felon. And even then, without a verification process its still useless, since you can't tell if the CPL is valid or genuine. "I am perplexed at your resistance to making sure you train with certified good guys. Do you actually want to train next to an Al-quada member, or perhaps billy bob biker with his 6 felonies to his credit? Do you actually want the next guy to case your house to have advanced handgun and tactical training skills? Can you imagine a gang of car-jackers that can shoot like an IPSC Master? You want your wife or daughter to train next to a sexual predator? " They change the requirements since I got my CPL? They screen for sexual predators and other criminals who aren't convicted felons? "For me, I would rather have all the scum of the world learn their tricks of the trade from TV and the movies. I am not worried about misdemeanor traffic offenses. As long as you can legally purchase and own a firearm, you are welcome here. If you have to go to the black market for your guns, then I would prefer you stay away from us. " Define "black market"? Do you mean private sale? "The requirement to show that you are a good guy, and not a convicted felon, member of a terrorist group, or any other undesireables is not so much to insure that we cover our butts, but to make sure that the classes as a whole are made up of honest, law abiding citizens wanting to learn self-defense skills." Having a CPL does not guarantee that a person is not a member of a terrorist group, or a criminal, or an "undesirable" as you said. "The only way to do that is for the students to show a proof of good character. We don't have access to the State of Washington CCL computor list, we just have you show your CCL." So what you're saying is, anyone that has a CPL, whether it's revoked, or made on their home computer is good to go in your classes since that is the only proof you require and can't verify that information in this state. "I hope this helps clear up the reasons why we require such. Believe me, being the libertarian that I am, I don't like doing this. But, I also don't want 60 minutes to show up on my door step wondering why the next DC sniper got his training here." Perhaps when the news reporters come at ask why you train citizens in self defense, you could tell them " Because in America people aren't guilty until they're convicted of commiting a crime." "As far as SoCal, I have 20 years in LE from Idaho and Washington, never been a cop in California, although I have trained many of them." As I had said in my previous post, I apparently mistook you for another LEO-turned-trainer in the region.