The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - Lubricate bullets even with carbide dies?

Watchman · August 16, 2000, 09:57 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Don Gwinn:
I'm going through the Speer manual Son gave me, and it tells me I don't have to lube cases for sizing if I use carbide dies. Obviously that's what I want to do, but the manual also mentions lubing the bullet before seating, but only in passing. It's not very clear about whether this is actually important or not.
So, do I need to lubricate bullets to seat them? We're talking about lead bullets in a .45 acp case to begin with. If so, do I use case lube?[/quote]

IF you use carbide dies you are not gaining anything by lubing the cases .You should lube your lead bullets however. How you lube them is not important.
I cast my own bullets in most common pistol calibers because I shoot quite a bit ,quite often. I have tried tumble lube, hot lube and cold lube with various mixtures of beeswax and parrafin. I have also tried them all with NO lube ...just to see if I could get away with it. I soon came to the conclusion that if it was'nt needed , no one would be doing it. Not only do the barrels get severly leaded up without it, but the accuracy really falls off after not many rounds have been shot. If the lead bullets passes the magic 1000fps mark, things really start happening fast.

In my expierence over the years, the hot lube seems to work for me the best. I mounted my bullet sizer (RCBS) on a hot plate sold by Midway. I turn it on for an hour or so before I use it. I use Thompson Blue Angel (also sold by Midway). The lube is much more durable than the cold lubes , but what suprised me the most was the level of accuracy it showed. A friend of mine who is an avid reloader and pistolero and the current Arkansas State Champ, decided to try some comparison tests on the range with it. We loaded some .357 158g SWC and made all things the same except for the lube ..we had 250 rounds of each. We used the same DAN WESSON .357 with a vent heavy 6" barrel. He had won several matches with this gun and it was known to be extremley accurate.

HE shot a 7,15,25 and 50 yards and measured the groups. He then shot the same amount of ammo at the same ranges with the "hot" lubed ammo.
We cleaned the revolver before shooting each type of ammo , then I shot exactly the same way just to see if we could verify the results.

We were surprised at the results . The hot lubed ammo consistently shot better than the cold lubed ammo.

WE both have a theory about this. When we were shooting, the temp. was hovering around the mid 90's. On the targets shot with the cold lubed bullets, some lube would splatter on the targets and would be evident around the holes in the paper. The hot lubed bullets did not do this. It seemed resonable to us, that some of the cold lube would separate from the bullets while they were in flight ..thus changing the weight of the bullets ever so slightly, just enough to make them inconsistent enough to open up the groups ...especially at the longer ranges. Now understand that we are just a couple of hillbillys living in the Ozarks,we aint scientists or anything like that. But it does seem reasonable. It convinced me enough that I only use hot lube for bullets now.
These are my expeirences, maybe they'll give you a bit of an idea on the hows and whys.

August 16, 2000, 09:57 PM	#6
Watchman Junior member Join Date: August 8, 2000 Location: ARKANSAS Posts: 484	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Don Gwinn: I'm going through the Speer manual Son gave me, and it tells me I don't have to lube cases for sizing if I use carbide dies. Obviously that's what I want to do, but the manual also mentions lubing the bullet before seating, but only in passing. It's not very clear about whether this is actually important or not. So, do I need to lubricate bullets to seat them? We're talking about lead bullets in a .45 acp case to begin with. If so, do I use case lube?[/quote] IF you use carbide dies you are not gaining anything by lubing the cases .You should lube your lead bullets however. How you lube them is not important. I cast my own bullets in most common pistol calibers because I shoot quite a bit ,quite often. I have tried tumble lube, hot lube and cold lube with various mixtures of beeswax and parrafin. I have also tried them all with NO lube ...just to see if I could get away with it. I soon came to the conclusion that if it was'nt needed , no one would be doing it. Not only do the barrels get severly leaded up without it, but the accuracy really falls off after not many rounds have been shot. If the lead bullets passes the magic 1000fps mark, things really start happening fast. In my expierence over the years, the hot lube seems to work for me the best. I mounted my bullet sizer (RCBS) on a hot plate sold by Midway. I turn it on for an hour or so before I use it. I use Thompson Blue Angel (also sold by Midway). The lube is much more durable than the cold lubes , but what suprised me the most was the level of accuracy it showed. A friend of mine who is an avid reloader and pistolero and the current Arkansas State Champ, decided to try some comparison tests on the range with it. We loaded some .357 158g SWC and made all things the same except for the lube ..we had 250 rounds of each. We used the same DAN WESSON .357 with a vent heavy 6" barrel. He had won several matches with this gun and it was known to be extremley accurate. HE shot a 7,15,25 and 50 yards and measured the groups. He then shot the same amount of ammo at the same ranges with the "hot" lubed ammo. We cleaned the revolver before shooting each type of ammo , then I shot exactly the same way just to see if we could verify the results. We were surprised at the results . The hot lubed ammo consistently shot better than the cold lubed ammo. WE both have a theory about this. When we were shooting, the temp. was hovering around the mid 90's. On the targets shot with the cold lubed bullets, some lube would splatter on the targets and would be evident around the holes in the paper. The hot lubed bullets did not do this. It seemed resonable to us, that some of the cold lube would separate from the bullets while they were in flight ..thus changing the weight of the bullets ever so slightly, just enough to make them inconsistent enough to open up the groups ...especially at the longer ranges. Now understand that we are just a couple of hillbillys living in the Ozarks,we aint scientists or anything like that. But it does seem reasonable. It convinced me enough that I only use hot lube for bullets now. These are my expeirences, maybe they'll give you a bit of an idea on the hows and whys.