The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - Are you struggling with light or heavy bullets ?

The Shooting Cat · May 29, 2009, 12:18 PM

Dear all, I'm posting this in both the "hand loading" and "competition" sections.

I'm writing you all to request/solicit contribution from US based guys who have experience/knowledge/know-how/ around the "real recoil" vs "perceived recoil" with light and heavy bullets in the 9mm caliber handguns.

What we are trying to do
We're trying to give a reasonable reply to the question "is it better to shoot light or heavy bullets" in IPSC, with 9mm minor power factor ? We know how difficult it is to give a reply to such question, and we know that it brings with it many aspects, some of them "easy" to explain using math, some others less easy. In particular, one area we want to focus is: is the real recoil exactly what the math says ?

How do we do that
We have a specially modified version of a handgun rest, equipped with laser collimator, shock absorbers and transducers, connected with sensors to a PC recording several impulse and time-based events, etc..
We also have the specific math formulas to compare to..

Why we do that
Because this topic is still a very debatable one for us and we also are fascinated by what can be discovered with practical tests vs what the math is telling us. We will make the tests and the results published on an Italian guns magazine, and the topic will be further discussed on our web based forum.

Why we are looking for contribution
Because we believe that in the US, other people may have already studied and tried a lot around this topic and 1- we don't want to re-invent the wheel 2-We may leverage the work already done 3- we like contribution and teamwork from other Countries on a common topic

The reason why we ask specifically US folks is not to limit participation. It is just because in my previous discussions in web forums on the web, I met US guys who had the required know-how and I identified them as potential contributors. Also the US is quite wide

and the experience from the US should be already wide enough to provide what we look for. Participation from other Countries as a second possibility is certainly welcome.

What's in for you ?
Certainly, NOT money.. We won't get anything either for what we do. Except the fact that we'll all be working on a common (hopefully) interesting topic, and that potentially everyone will learn something. Also, if you've never done that, working on a multi-Country project is exciting. If you already tried "the taste" you know what I mean. You'll have the chance to share your knowledge and hopefully we'll share ours.

What we're looking for
The perfect contributor should have experience with 9mm semi-auto handguns and have used handgun rests. Should be enough math-literate to handle the math behind handgun recoil. Should have experience with hand loading the 9mm at CIP, SAAMI, normal, +P, and/or +P+ pressures, with light and heavy bullets.
Should have Interest in what we do

open mind and accept different opinions, doubts, questions and things to do

Should have already performed tests aimed to measuring real and/or felt recoil along the lines of our tests.

Should understand that English and its US variant

is not our language and so expect mistakes and misspelling

We hope to receive your "applications" soon and hopefully start working together.

Thanks for reading this long post.

Andrea.

May 29, 2009, 12:18 PM	#18
The Shooting Cat Member Join Date: December 8, 2007 Location: Milan, Italy Posts: 38	Dear all, I'm posting this in both the "hand loading" and "competition" sections. I'm writing you all to request/solicit contribution from US based guys who have experience/knowledge/know-how/ around the "real recoil" vs "perceived recoil" with light and heavy bullets in the 9mm caliber handguns. What we are trying to do We're trying to give a reasonable reply to the question "is it better to shoot light or heavy bullets" in IPSC, with 9mm minor power factor ? We know how difficult it is to give a reply to such question, and we know that it brings with it many aspects, some of them "easy" to explain using math, some others less easy. In particular, one area we want to focus is: is the real recoil exactly what the math says ? How do we do that We have a specially modified version of a handgun rest, equipped with laser collimator, shock absorbers and transducers, connected with sensors to a PC recording several impulse and time-based events, etc.. We also have the specific math formulas to compare to.. Why we do that Because this topic is still a very debatable one for us and we also are fascinated by what can be discovered with practical tests vs what the math is telling us. We will make the tests and the results published on an Italian guns magazine, and the topic will be further discussed on our web based forum. Why we are looking for contribution Because we believe that in the US, other people may have already studied and tried a lot around this topic and 1- we don't want to re-invent the wheel 2-We may leverage the work already done 3- we like contribution and teamwork from other Countries on a common topic The reason why we ask specifically US folks is not to limit participation. It is just because in my previous discussions in web forums on the web, I met US guys who had the required know-how and I identified them as potential contributors. Also the US is quite wide and the experience from the US should be already wide enough to provide what we look for. Participation from other Countries as a second possibility is certainly welcome. What's in for you ? Certainly, NOT money.. We won't get anything either for what we do. Except the fact that we'll all be working on a common (hopefully) interesting topic, and that potentially everyone will learn something. Also, if you've never done that, working on a multi-Country project is exciting. If you already tried "the taste" you know what I mean. You'll have the chance to share your knowledge and hopefully we'll share ours. What we're looking for The perfect contributor should have experience with 9mm semi-auto handguns and have used handgun rests. Should be enough math-literate to handle the math behind handgun recoil. Should have experience with hand loading the 9mm at CIP, SAAMI, normal, +P, and/or +P+ pressures, with light and heavy bullets. Should have Interest in what we do open mind and accept different opinions, doubts, questions and things to do Should have already performed tests aimed to measuring real and/or felt recoil along the lines of our tests. Should understand that English and its US variant is not our language and so expect mistakes and misspelling We hope to receive your "applications" soon and hopefully start working together. Thanks for reading this long post. Andrea. __________________ CZ 75 SP-01 Shadow (9x21 IMI)