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Old August 5, 2012, 02:00 AM   #44
Terry A
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Join Date: December 27, 2008
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July 29, 2012, 10:52 PM #13
Bartholomew Roberts
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Join Date: June 13, 2000
Location: Texas and Oklahoma area
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Originally Posted by randersonabq
I cannot see the need to have high capacity magazines. My USGI 1911A1, for example, holds seven rounds. If I am a capable marksman why would I need more than that? I have seen ads for a 100 round magazine for the Ruger 10/22- why?

A capable marksman? The officer in this story was a veteran SWAT trained officer. He fired 36 of the 40 rounds he was carrying, achieving 14 hits, only 5 of which had the possibility of stopping the fight. All of this to stop just ONE assailant. If you find this guy in your living room at 2am - how many rounds do you want?

So what can we learn from this as it relates to "high" capacity debate?

1. Marksmanship - this officer was a veteran officer and SWAT trained. He averaged almost 50% hits in the adrenaline charged moment of saving his life. That places him far above the average LAPD/NYPD officer who averages only 28-33% hit rate in shootings. If you shoot as well as this officer, you may land 3 hits out of your entire magazine. If you shoot as well as the average police officer, you may land only two hits.

2. A gun, especially a pistol, is not a death ray. It isn't unusual for someone to be shot, even multiple times, and still continue to function. In this case, out of 14 hits, only 5 could have caused a physiological stop and 2 of those 5 would have allowed the assailant enough time to possibly kill the officer. So roughly 1/3 of the hits made were effective. If you get that lucky, you'll need 3 hits to get one hit that may force your attacker to stop 12-15 seconds later.

3. The majority of criminal assaults involve more than one attacker. JohnKSa has done a nice probability analysis that shows a 10rd magazine gives you about a 50% chance of winning a gunfight with two attackers.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=495800

Of course, none of that is relevant to Aurora. Giving that person 10 ten round magazines is just as much of a problem as him having a 100rd magazine, probably more since the 10rd mag is actually reliable. Not to mention the entire idea that law-abiding citizens should be treated as potential lunatics. There is no safe amount of ammo you can give to a mass murderer. There is no safe magazine for a murderer.

And lets face it, from a practical perspective, you couldn't get rid of them if you wanted to. Detachable magazines with more than 10 rounds date back to the early 1900s. There are probably hundreds of millions of untraceable "high capacity" magazines out there.

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Last edited by Bartholomew Roberts; July 29, 2012 at 11:21 PM.
This was a great post in a thread that had many other great replies.

Personally speaking, I debate this with one of my brothers all the time. He's a wheel gunner. I'm a double stack semi afficionado.

I remember back in the day when I was in police work, from 1981 until 1985, we were mandated to carry any .357 mag as long as we qualified with it. I started with a S&W 19, then got a S&W 66 and then a Ruger GP100.

And then, after BEGGING our chief, writing reports on other departments that switched to semis and taking him out for testing, he finally gave the ok for us to switch to semis in 1985 IF we wanted to. All but the 3 oldest members of our department switched. A few years later, semis were mandatory. The 3 revolver men were "intimidated", to say the least, with the semis.

THE primary reason I loved them was simple.....available firepower. Not the spray and pray type of firepower. The firepower needed for a Platt and Matix type encounter.

Yes, the odds are SLIM that you'll need that in LE, however, nobody can PROVE you won't need that kind of ammo at some point.

I got so used to carrying that type of pistol that even when I retired in early 2011, they're still my 1st, 2nd and 3rd choice for a carry or home defense pistol.

A quick note on civilians and high capacity. I'm just an regular retired guy, no longer an officer. But I have found out that I've either become so comfortable with carrying the high capacity 40's and 45's that when I carry a slim stack, I just don't feel like I'm "ready". I know that's not the right way to put it, but it's honestly how I feel.

And last but not least, the old stand by....."It's better to have the extra ammo and not need it than to need it and not have it."
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