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Skorzeny · September 22, 2000, 02:33 AM

Well, well...

In my experience, traditional Wing Chun is about as useful for street fighting as "Karate." Wing Chun people spend hours and hours learning trapping that turns out to be mainly non-functional when fighting non-Wing Chun people (this isn't just my observation, it is the observation shared by Bruce Lee, Inosanto, Vunak, etc.etc.). Functional trapping is used for striking (clearing barriers to strikes) rather than trapping per se.

I trained in Shotokan Karate in Japan for some time. The "hard core" Karateka usually train in Judo as well. Kimura (who defeated Helio Gracie) was perhaps one of the greatest Judo blackbelts who ever lived; he was a blackbelt in Kyokushinkai as well.

Karate (whether Shotokan, Kyokushinkai, Okinawan, whatever) is NOT useless per se. Nothing is useless. The question is, is it time/effort efficient for self-defense, compared to other systems out there? The answer, from my experience, is no.

Boxing, Muay Thai and Savate Boxe Francaise all teach effective striking with greater time/effort efficiency, primarily because effectivess in fighting/sparring is the main emphasis in these systems.

In most styles of Karate, the emphasis is on the preservation of traditional techniques. Sparring is often unrealistic. On top of that, Karate really deals with two ranges of unarmed combat (kicking and punching). It usually does not deal with two others (trapping and grappling ranges). Nor does it deal effectively with common "street" weapons like knives and sticks (which are best dealt, IMHO, by Filippino systems).

BTW, Benny "the Jet" Urquidez is an illegitimate son of Gene "Judo" Lebell who was one of the greatest Judoka ever produced by this country. Japanese and traditional American Judoka detested Gene, because of his unorthodox Judo (he trained in catch wrestling) skills. During his youth, Gene challenged one of the highest ranked boxers of his day and knocked him out (actually choked him into unconsciousness). I believe a tape of this exists and can be purchased somewhere...

Now, leave me alone!

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu

[This message has been edited by Skorzeny (edited September 22, 2000).]

September 22, 2000, 02:33 AM	#8
Skorzeny Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 1999 Posts: 1,938	Well, well... In my experience, traditional Wing Chun is about as useful for street fighting as "Karate." Wing Chun people spend hours and hours learning trapping that turns out to be mainly non-functional when fighting non-Wing Chun people (this isn't just my observation, it is the observation shared by Bruce Lee, Inosanto, Vunak, etc.etc.). Functional trapping is used for striking (clearing barriers to strikes) rather than trapping per se. I trained in Shotokan Karate in Japan for some time. The "hard core" Karateka usually train in Judo as well. Kimura (who defeated Helio Gracie) was perhaps one of the greatest Judo blackbelts who ever lived; he was a blackbelt in Kyokushinkai as well. Karate (whether Shotokan, Kyokushinkai, Okinawan, whatever) is NOT useless per se. Nothing is useless. The question is, is it time/effort efficient for self-defense, compared to other systems out there? The answer, from my experience, is no. Boxing, Muay Thai and Savate Boxe Francaise all teach effective striking with greater time/effort efficiency, primarily because effectivess in fighting/sparring is the main emphasis in these systems. In most styles of Karate, the emphasis is on the preservation of traditional techniques. Sparring is often unrealistic. On top of that, Karate really deals with two ranges of unarmed combat (kicking and punching). It usually does not deal with two others (trapping and grappling ranges). Nor does it deal effectively with common "street" weapons like knives and sticks (which are best dealt, IMHO, by Filippino systems). BTW, Benny "the Jet" Urquidez is an illegitimate son of Gene "Judo" Lebell who was one of the greatest Judoka ever produced by this country. Japanese and traditional American Judoka detested Gene, because of his unorthodox Judo (he trained in catch wrestling) skills. During his youth, Gene challenged one of the highest ranked boxers of his day and knocked him out (actually choked him into unconsciousness). I believe a tape of this exists and can be purchased somewhere... Now, leave me alone! Skorzeny ------------------ For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu [This message has been edited by Skorzeny (edited September 22, 2000).]