The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - Two overweight, middle aged guys on retention, disarms, and basic defenses

MLeake · August 28, 2013, 08:35 AM

daddyo, it was probably not obvious due to poor video quality, but the first part of most moves was getting off the line. In other words, before any attempt at a grab is made, the body is moved out of the way of the muzzle or knife point.

Additionally, the hand and arm that will be primary on the grab is initially used to deflect the weapon to the opposite side from the one the body moves to. There may be exceptions, but this is a general rule.

If you start the drill with the gun drawn and pointed at you, you are starting too late. You may not have a better option, but odds go way down.

Of course, there are counter-counters available to the attacker.

As far as percentages, in actual cases I have been fortunate enough not to have to fend off a weapon. A friend and dojo mentor has, and last I knew he was three for three - and the would-be shooters ended up with broken arms or wrists. (He is a narcotics cop who specializes in street buys.)

Another guy who had started training at the dojo where I started learning this stuff did so as a result of having been shivved in the shoulder. He was a CO, and when the inmate came at him he froze. Other COs had to swarm the guy. A few months after the new guy started, he was supervising a road gang, and one of the trustee workers attacked him with a bush axe. The CO employed a sword takeaway / hip throw combo, and both took the bush axe and threw the attacker on his head, resulting in a KO.

Were those results guaranteed? No, not by any means. Was the CO massively skilled at that point? No, though he had been training 2 hrs a night, 4 hrs a week for about 12 weeks when the bush axe attack occurred.

So, he had some skills, but most importantly - unlike what happened in the shiv attack - he did not freeze.

August 28, 2013, 08:35 AM	#10
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	daddyo, it was probably not obvious due to poor video quality, but the first part of most moves was getting off the line. In other words, before any attempt at a grab is made, the body is moved out of the way of the muzzle or knife point. Additionally, the hand and arm that will be primary on the grab is initially used to deflect the weapon to the opposite side from the one the body moves to. There may be exceptions, but this is a general rule. If you start the drill with the gun drawn and pointed at you, you are starting too late. You may not have a better option, but odds go way down. Of course, there are counter-counters available to the attacker. As far as percentages, in actual cases I have been fortunate enough not to have to fend off a weapon. A friend and dojo mentor has, and last I knew he was three for three - and the would-be shooters ended up with broken arms or wrists. (He is a narcotics cop who specializes in street buys.) Another guy who had started training at the dojo where I started learning this stuff did so as a result of having been shivved in the shoulder. He was a CO, and when the inmate came at him he froze. Other COs had to swarm the guy. A few months after the new guy started, he was supervising a road gang, and one of the trustee workers attacked him with a bush axe. The CO employed a sword takeaway / hip throw combo, and both took the bush axe and threw the attacker on his head, resulting in a KO. Were those results guaranteed? No, not by any means. Was the CO massively skilled at that point? No, though he had been training 2 hrs a night, 4 hrs a week for about 12 weeks when the bush axe attack occurred. So, he had some skills, but most importantly - unlike what happened in the shiv attack - he did not freeze.