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F. Guffey · February 23, 2013, 09:22 AM

Yesterday, 09:40 AM #16
603Country
Senior Member

Join Date: January 6, 2011
Location: Thornton, Texas
Posts: 1,555 Since I don't have any 6mm Navy brass, I'm not able to form cases as FGuffey apparently does. I'm limited to fire forming and either neck sizing or partial resizing from there. In that specific rifle (my 220), I bought a neck die, but found over time that I got better accuracy with partial resizing, which works well with tapered cases.

Over 30 years with that rifle and two barrels and no case head separations. I assume that it boils down to the fact that I don't FL resize and set the shoulder back too far.

As for Wyoredman's question, if he's cut into cases and found no sign of case wall thinning at the base, I'd put it down to a little first firing case stretch. Tapered cases do tend to do that, which is why PO Ackley (as FGuffey mentioned) was always 'improving' cases and cartriges by reducing case body taper. Just neck size em from here and you should be fine, though occasionally, if you shoot em hot, you'll need to push that shoulder back a bit.

Today, 01:16 PM #28
603Country
Senior Member

Join Date: January 6, 2011
Location: Thornton, Texas
Posts: 1,555 Guffey, I must be missing something. Firing the case in your rifle chamber will give you pretty much an exact shoulder that fits your rifle chamber. What's the great joy and process improvement from your pre-making a shoulder on a case that will then be fired in your rifle and give you exactly the shoulder you'd have gotten if you fireformed it in the first place. Can you give me the short answer on that? I'm not obsessive enough to use your approach, but I would like to understand it.

“Since I don't have any 6mm Navy brass, I'm not able to form cases as FGuffey apparently does” 603Country, you started out missing something, now you are ahead, it is not necessary for a reloader to go back to the beginning and start over.

Do I think you are missing something, no, I believe you skipped a few chapters, there is nothing in my response a reloader should not know, added to the chapters you skipped, this is not the reloading forum.
What is the joy?? I will ask you, what satisfaction do you get out of doing it correctly? The difference in what joy is the difference between knowing what you are doing and ignorance. (Ignorance as in not knowing)

The difference in length between the 30 Gibbs and 30/06 from the head of the case to the shoulder of the case is .112”. 30/06 cases are fire formed to 30 Gibbs, I know of no one that chambers a 30/06 round in a 30 Gibbs chamber and then pulls the trigger. I could increase the chance it would work but I increase the chance of success by necking up the 30/06 to 338 or 35 cal. first then establish a secondary shoulder to head space on (as in .000 difference in length between the chamber and case, remember I am a reloader with a press and dies with threads, threads make it possible to adjust, JOY? I take pride in what I do, I get satisfaction from getting it correct. I eliminate case travel, when forming 30 Gibbs from 30/06 the case shortens .035” in length.

My favorite cases are a cases that has been shot in a trashy old chamber or 280 Remington cases, the 280 case is longer from the head of the case to the case body/shoulder juncture than the 30/06 by .051” and the 280 case is .041 longer, meaning? I do not have to settle for short 30 Gibbs cases. The perception that chambering a round and pulling the trigger is fire forming is a more like a bad habit than an answer or cure. Back to the part where I said I want to know the length of the chamber first. Necking a case up then sizing the neck to establish a second shoulder eliminates case travel, the 220 Swift is prevented from moving forward by the rim, no one knows how far the shoulder of the chamber is from the shoulder of the case when the trigger is pulled, no. A reloader that understand the length of the case can be increased between the head of the case to the shoulder can eliminate case travel by head spacing on the shoulder of the chamber.

Not available, cases with thicker rims or thicker belts, in the world of reloading knurling to raise a surface does not exist, out side of the world of the 303 British case no one measures the thickness of the rim.

F. Guffey

February 23, 2013, 09:22 AM	#29
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Yesterday, 09:40 AM #16 603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 1,555 Since I don't have any 6mm Navy brass, I'm not able to form cases as FGuffey apparently does. I'm limited to fire forming and either neck sizing or partial resizing from there. In that specific rifle (my 220), I bought a neck die, but found over time that I got better accuracy with partial resizing, which works well with tapered cases. Over 30 years with that rifle and two barrels and no case head separations. I assume that it boils down to the fact that I don't FL resize and set the shoulder back too far. As for Wyoredman's question, if he's cut into cases and found no sign of case wall thinning at the base, I'd put it down to a little first firing case stretch. Tapered cases do tend to do that, which is why PO Ackley (as FGuffey mentioned) was always 'improving' cases and cartriges by reducing case body taper. Just neck size em from here and you should be fine, though occasionally, if you shoot em hot, you'll need to push that shoulder back a bit. Today, 01:16 PM #28 603Country Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2011 Location: Thornton, Texas Posts: 1,555 Guffey, I must be missing something. Firing the case in your rifle chamber will give you pretty much an exact shoulder that fits your rifle chamber. What's the great joy and process improvement from your pre-making a shoulder on a case that will then be fired in your rifle and give you exactly the shoulder you'd have gotten if you fireformed it in the first place. Can you give me the short answer on that? I'm not obsessive enough to use your approach, but I would like to understand it. “Since I don't have any 6mm Navy brass, I'm not able to form cases as FGuffey apparently does” 603Country, you started out missing something, now you are ahead, it is not necessary for a reloader to go back to the beginning and start over. Do I think you are missing something, no, I believe you skipped a few chapters, there is nothing in my response a reloader should not know, added to the chapters you skipped, this is not the reloading forum. What is the joy?? I will ask you, what satisfaction do you get out of doing it correctly? The difference in what joy is the difference between knowing what you are doing and ignorance. (Ignorance as in not knowing) The difference in length between the 30 Gibbs and 30/06 from the head of the case to the shoulder of the case is .112”. 30/06 cases are fire formed to 30 Gibbs, I know of no one that chambers a 30/06 round in a 30 Gibbs chamber and then pulls the trigger. I could increase the chance it would work but I increase the chance of success by necking up the 30/06 to 338 or 35 cal. first then establish a secondary shoulder to head space on (as in .000 difference in length between the chamber and case, remember I am a reloader with a press and dies with threads, threads make it possible to adjust, JOY? I take pride in what I do, I get satisfaction from getting it correct. I eliminate case travel, when forming 30 Gibbs from 30/06 the case shortens .035” in length. My favorite cases are a cases that has been shot in a trashy old chamber or 280 Remington cases, the 280 case is longer from the head of the case to the case body/shoulder juncture than the 30/06 by .051” and the 280 case is .041 longer, meaning? I do not have to settle for short 30 Gibbs cases. The perception that chambering a round and pulling the trigger is fire forming is a more like a bad habit than an answer or cure. Back to the part where I said I want to know the length of the chamber first. Necking a case up then sizing the neck to establish a second shoulder eliminates case travel, the 220 Swift is prevented from moving forward by the rim, no one knows how far the shoulder of the chamber is from the shoulder of the case when the trigger is pulled, no. A reloader that understand the length of the case can be increased between the head of the case to the shoulder can eliminate case travel by head spacing on the shoulder of the chamber. Not available, cases with thicker rims or thicker belts, in the world of reloading knurling to raise a surface does not exist, out side of the world of the 303 British case no one measures the thickness of the rim. F. Guffey