[Olaf]

I had a bit of spare time this morning, so, thinking about this thread....I decided to run an informal "scientific experiment".

I set up my powder scale....zeroed it carefully...then checked it's accuracy against my set of check weights. All was okay.

Then, I set up to run 30 test weighings, using an appropriate Lee dipper and my favorite powder....which is IMR-4064. For those of you who've never used this powder, it's a tubular, extruded powder...and notoriously difficult to meter through powder dispensers...(or even through a powder funnel, for that matter). I chose this powder because 1) it's all I use now (it gives me great results)...and 2) it IS notoriously hard to meter.

My "experiment" charge was 42.0 grains, chosen because, as it happens this is exactly my preferred load for my 8mm Mauser cartridges. This is a mild load, entirely safe (in fact, at least 17 -18 % below the safe limit)...but which is very accurate for me...and gives me all the "oomph" I need for my purposes.

I chose a Lee 3.1 cc dipper, as this dipper works out to 41.6 grains, with the IMR-4064 powder. It would have been silly (and incorrect) to use a dipper larger than that.

So, on to the test. As I was trying for 42.0 grains, I loaded the dipper to slightly "heaping"....then tapped the handle lightly, exactly TWICE each time, with my index finger. I then immediately weighed the charge....dumped the powder back in the bowl....and repeated the test - keeping a tally of the results.

The results were as follows :

Of 30 tests.....

7, or 23.3 % were spot on (exactly 42.0 grains)
2, or 6.7 % were under by 0.1 grain (41.9 gr.)
3, or 10 % were under by 0.2 grain (41.8 gr.)
14, or 46.6 %, were over by 0.1 grain (42.1 gr.)
4, or 13.3 %, were over by 0.2 grain (42.2 gr.)...........

What does all of this prove ? It conclusively PROVES nothing....but it does INDICATE, especially when the load in question is well into the SAFE range...that the Lee dippers are pretty accurate (and definitely safe), even when not used exactly as intended. At least the 3.1cc dipper, anyway. Notice I was trying to load the dipper a bit beyond it's capacity (41.6 grains)....to simulate "real world" conditions. I do think that the error would likely have been more like +/- 0.1 grains, if I had struck off the powder even with the top of the dipper (thus attempting to get 41.6 grains).

This result matches my "real world experience" with the dippers, with all of the powders I've used. Obviously, ball powders work better in ANY type of metering/ scooping device - but good results can be obtained with the extruded powders...and a little care, as well.

Finally, I should point out to those who can't stand the idea of their charges varying by even 0.1 grains....that, in MY particular circumstance, this is unimportant. My rifle, by actual testing, will shoot loads with 41.8 grains, as well as 42.2 grains, just as well as 42.0 grains. In each of these cases, the rifle and the targets never know the difference.

This certainly does NOT mean that the Lee dippers are satisfactory for ALL handloading scenarios. Certainly not. I would NOT depend on them if I were pushing near the safe limit for my loads. Likewise, I probably would not depend on them if I needed an odd charge weight....say 43.6 grains (unless I could find a dipper that by actual, verified measurement, could produce a charge consistently within 0.1 grain or so). It goes without saying, also, that if one does not choose to use the dippers...or does not trust them - then he/she should not use them. That is a perfectly valid choice. We all have out own "style". Each individual should choose whatever technique works for him/her - period.

Since this discussion is ongoing, I just thought that you guys might like to hear about this "experiment".

Best wishes to all.