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Old January 7, 2006, 03:31 PM   #34
Para Bellum
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Join Date: January 7, 2005
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Statistics / Troso Penetration / Lone Troopers / Lessons Learned and remembered

Quote:
b) How many LEO-involved shootings do you have there in Austria? Forgive me if I have made an assumption, but my perception of the state-of-affairs in a country like that is that the number of shootings overall is quite low. Is there a sufficient number to produce statistics on the types of injuries sustained and the placement of entrance wounds? I just think that with small samples we can come to erroneous conclusions about ammunition and shot placement. This also reflects on your statement that as far as you can remeber nobody shot with your ammunition COM has survived. I find that unlikely to be a valid starting point for an argument that all subsequent shootings with that same ammunition would also be fatal. It comes down to numbers.
You are right. Austria is small and relatively low crime. Austria is the size of Maine and has 8 Million inhabitants. The number of police shootings is small. But the remakrable fact that only the police seems to survive police shootings here might also be due to the fact that if the police here shoot, they shoot a lot. They carry Glock 17s with usually 17 rounds in one gun and they are trained to shoot until the threat no longer is a threat. Plus, Police here always come in pairs. No lone troopers here. And: If any violence is expeced, the COBRA (link) (kind of SWAT) are called and these guys know their jobs extremely well. I remember one case of a suspect open fire on two policeman as he left the elevator and saw the two officers waiting at his door. He caught 22 rounds of 9x19mm in the blink of an eye (he also hit on officer in the vest with his .32). And furthermoreso, COBRA mostly work with their AUGs (Steyr) and/or MP5s...

Anyway: Maybe our inicdents are not representative. Still it's hard for me to believe that it were at all likeley to survive several COM hits with 9x19mm or equivalent (penetrating) bullets.

I think there are several things I learned from or was horribly reminded by viewing Trooper Coats tragic death:

1. Patrolling alone is an irresponsible and irrational strategy. Troopers expect crime and have to fight it. Without anyone watching your back that's hardly reasonably possible IMHO. I am truly irritated by this US-practice.

2. If you are about to search somebody for weapons expect him to hide one and strike as soon as your search becomes inevitable. What else could you expect an armed criminal with a concealed weapon to do?
So: step 7yds or so back, place your hand on your holstered gun and order him into a position where he cant strike or strikes form disadvantage. Keep your hand on your gun and conduct the search with your weak hand....
Still: If I were alone, I wouldn't search a suspect. Even my gun is in his reach in such a situation and nobody can search and full controll a suspect at the same time IMHO.

3. If a formerly cooperative person shows hesitation if you ask for his consent to a search, be on condition orange at least. If you don't see all the suspect's hands in such a situation: condition red.

4. If being attacked: shoot back as you move to cover. Getting cover has priority over shooting back.

5. Call assistance only from cover. If you have no cover yet: Get cover or keep moving as you shoot back.

6. Never underestimate your Adversary. A friendly fat dwarf can kill a 6ft ACE-Team ex-marine ex-fotball star LEO in seconds.

7. Never underestimate a situation. A friendly and polite fat dude with his hand in his pocket can already get his revolver ready to fire while distracting you in order to strike with the cover of surprise.

8. And yet again: Don't escalate situations alone, ie without backup. You don't really have a chance against a determined criminal. We are a small country, but if things turn bad here we often face fromerl eastern-block professional criminals with an affection fot the 7,62x25mm pistol caliber. If Blackburn had used this kind of gun, Trooper Coates would very likely have died from the two shots in the vest even. The more I think about troopers rolloing allone, the more stunned I become...
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