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DNS,
The Tueller drill is a different thing, because the runner (with the simulated knife) is the one who is acting and the shooter the one who is reacting to the other person's movement.
The person who reacts is usually the person who loses, because action takes less time than reaction.
pax
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Ah, the "action beats reaction" thing again. Assuming preliminary variables are held constant - meaning not relying on the issue of distraction or other variables that directly hamper movement, action only beats reaction in comparable movements or comparable timed movements. Action does not beat reaction when the reactionary movement is shorter in time by as much time as needed to start the reaction. We've played the airsoft draw on a drawn gun game. The person drawing instigates the action. The person with the drawn gun reacts and shoots the person who drew before he has a chance shoot, often before he has a chance to even clear leather.
Why does this happen? Because action doesn't beat reaction when the time to comlete the action isn't small enough to overcome the redcued amount of time required for the reaction event to be accomplished.
If you are just talking about action beating reaction, it doesn't work in this type of scenario. What kraigwy is talking about isn't just action/reaction but longer timed action beating distraction time plus the much shorter reaction time. If kraigwy was counting on action beating reaction, he would not be relying on the distraction aspect before starting his action.
Yes, the Tueller Drill is different, but as I noted, the person drawing often loses, but not always. The guy with the knife often loses. How is that possible if his movement was action and the person drawing was reaction? Simple. The person drawing can react and complete the task quicker than the action of running the 21 feet to stab the shooter. In those cases, reaction beats action.
Reaction comonly beats action. That is why martial artists learn and effectively use blocking moves. The moves to block as a reaction are usually moves shorter in duration than the action moves to strike.
There is one additional benefit to kraigwy's reliance on distraction. A lot of bad guys really are not prepared to start shooting. Unfortunately, there are some good guys with the same problem. So if something goes wrong from the bad guy's perspective, their first inclination isn't necessarily to pull the trigger and that costs them valuable time as well.
nate noted...
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The above is the product of one of those practice drills. Eight shots in 2.08 seconds, with a .53 reaction time and .22 average split. Thats not really that remarkable, till you consider the fact that it was with 230 grain +P ammo and all eight shots hit the torso A-zone of an ISPC target five yards away.
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It is rather remarkable with regular ammo or +P compared to about 99% of gun owners. I found it rather amusing to be in gun classes such as at Thunder Ranch and doing a 3 or 5 shot drill of some sort and I could be finished firing and completing a mag change and be scanning and there would still be people firing.
From what I have seen, the average concealed carry person has a 3-4 second draw and fire first shot which is often much longer with alternative forms of carry. The practiced CCW person is usually in the 1.75 to <3.0 second range. These are times that are not after the person has been drawing and firing during a range session and is warmed but, but in having participants come in from the street, put on safety glasses and muffs and taken to the firing line. The shots are cold, from concealment, and without the benefit of retucking shirts, moving holsters, emptying pockets of additonal gear.
Yes, skilled and well practiced individuals are much faster. This group of people is the exception rather than the rule when it comes to the general concealed carry population.