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Originally Posted by j3ffr0
First there isn't a law against mentally ill owning guns, and there really needs to be.
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Originally Posted by Spats McGee
Why? I don't much care if the mentally ill own guns. I am very concerned about them possessing firearms. Oh, and there most certainly is a law against both selling to those who have been adjudicated mentally ill, and against possession by those who have been adjudicated mentally ill. See 18 U.S.C 922
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Most guns that are possessed are possessed by their owners. Unless you want the govt auditing your possessions, the transaction where ownership occurs and possession is taken is the audit-able point. By definition, if you don't want the mentally ill possessing guns you sure don't want them owning them. Glad to have you aboard! |
It doesn't work that way. While most guns are possessed by their owners, the terms "ownership" and "possession" are not synonymous, your claim of "by definition" notwithstanding. Ownership deals with who holds title to the gun. Possession deals with who physically holds the gun. It is entirely possible to own something without possessing it, and to possess something without owning it. UBCs create a hurdle to ownership, not possession.
As far as the "govt auditing your possessions," that's exactly what I expect to happen, once the govt figures out that a UBC law is unenforceable without registration.
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Originally Posted by j3ffr0
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Originally Posted by Spats McGee
So adding more laws that cannot or will not be enforced seems like the right answer?
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Yes. Often additional law is required to enable enforcement of existing law. As a very simple example, speeding is illegal in my state. There is an additional statute that permits the police to use devices to monitor the speed of cars, so the speeding law can be enforced.
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Well, if continuing to add more laws in the face of all that is your answer, let's just cut to the chase. Are you in favor of full registration of all firearms?
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Originally Posted by j3ffr0
My analogy is correct. Would you do ID checks for alcohol sales? I agree with you that felons and mentally ill will get away with what they can. I will add most people to that list. People speed where the law isn't enforced. Background checks add a point where the law can be enforced. Don't kid yourself.
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No, it's not, and I'm not. I'm not claiming that there shouldn't be any background checks at all. What I'm telling you is that UBCs on private sales will not be enforceable, particularly in the absence of full firearms registration. Have you even bothered to read
Haynes v. U.S.?
Why should we enact laws that, almost by definition, will only provide more hurdles to lawful gun ownership, while having no impact on possession by felons and the mentally ill?
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Originally Posted by j3ffr0
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Originally Posted by Spats McGee
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Originally Posted by j3ffr0
Sell responsibly. Know who you are selling to, or you are part of the problem. The law against minors possessing and consuming alcohol probably doesn't do as much as the law that says stores must check IDs before selling alcohol to minors. It's this second law that makes it less readily available to them. We need another law too to make guns less readily available to the mentally ill and felons. We need to close the gun show loop hole too.
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There is no gun show loophole. The laws on sales apply regardless of location.
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And there is no spoon. Right Neo?
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The "gun show loophole" is a term created by the antis, and it's a myth. There are FFL sales and private party sales. If you can find me a provision of law that exempts gun shows from those rules, I'll be glad to take a look.
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Originally Posted by j3ffr0
Do you not think if an alcohol show came to town where IDs weren't checked by some vendors at all, that any kid who wanted to stock up on alcohol wouldn't be there?
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All FFLs at a gun show have to follow the rules on FFL sales. Those are the "vendors." If someone is engaged in the business of buying and selling firearms and selling from their stock without going through the FFL rules, they're in violation of the law, whether they are selling at a gun show, at home, or out on the Back 40.