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rc · September 12, 2011, 01:48 PM

At close range bird shot will punch right through a 2x4 and leave a hole at least 1 inch wide. I've got an emergency room doctor who is a good friend. He pulled the wad out of a stiff at the hospital. Nothing they could do from a shot of birdshot up close. Too much trauma. You could probably patch a few holes from buck fired at distance, but any shot column near point blank is devastating. This debate keeps coming up again and again and again and again. Fact is that like graysmoke said it's about control of your weapon. If your wife is comfortable with 410 for skeet and that's what she has by the bed loaded with #8, I pity the fool who tries to break in the house in the middle of the night. Yes there are better choices that have X inches more of penetration and are FBI rated but sorry to tell you DOA is DOA. A good 20, 16 or 12 guage firing #6 or larger shot within 10 feet into the face of an attacker will stop the threat in a hurry! Short of the person wearing body armor under a thick leather jacket, birdshot is going to mess up some punk doper cat burglar stalkers day. If you can't afford to buy and practice with buckshot, there is nothing wrong with skeet or trap shooting to practice reload, swing, lead, fire. Self defense is a fluid situation and a person who shoots shotgun regularly is in a lot better shape to defened agaist a moving intruder than someone who just strictly shooting bullseyes on stationary targets. If you can afford buckshot great! If not, don't be scared it's not adequate for defense. Ever see the episode of Son's of guns where they made a 410 kill stick for gators shooting shot loads? A 410 is leathan when correctly employed by a confident user.

I've got a friend who is obsessed about having a 44 magnum with 300 grain buffalo bore bullets or a 450 or 500 S&W magnum to put down bear when he's in the forest! We bought a pair of identical 44 Redhawks and with full power loads are both having problems keeping a good groups at 25 paces with these big barking magnums. Mid range stuff is so much more comfortable and controllable but my friend doesn't think they are adequate for bear defense! For me a 357 mag is a better overall defensive weapon because it fits my hand better and I can hit with it to some distance and group my shots pretty well. I'd feel comfortable plinking 2 liter bottles at 50 yards with the 357. I'm not holding my breath with the 44 page 30 feet! I'll keep shooting the 44 to improve cause It's fun and challenging, but the 357 for me is a much better bullet chucker for my needs. Any handgun against a bear is a big question mark so you better be able to place your shots into the vitals.

Some of you are obsessed with shotgun power and shot size without considering the individual skill level of different shooters. First rule of self defense. Have a reliable gun you are confident to use under stress! If a person can confidently handle a 22 rifle they are better prepared to defend themself than someone who is unfamiliar with a big 12 guage firing slugs. I'd sure like to know statistically what percentage of guys shot point blank with bird shot were able to continue their attack?

September 12, 2011, 01:48 PM	#33
rc Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2001 Location: CA Posts: 1,759	Bird shot rantings At close range bird shot will punch right through a 2x4 and leave a hole at least 1 inch wide. I've got an emergency room doctor who is a good friend. He pulled the wad out of a stiff at the hospital. Nothing they could do from a shot of birdshot up close. Too much trauma. You could probably patch a few holes from buck fired at distance, but any shot column near point blank is devastating. This debate keeps coming up again and again and again and again. Fact is that like graysmoke said it's about control of your weapon. If your wife is comfortable with 410 for skeet and that's what she has by the bed loaded with #8, I pity the fool who tries to break in the house in the middle of the night. Yes there are better choices that have X inches more of penetration and are FBI rated but sorry to tell you DOA is DOA. A good 20, 16 or 12 guage firing #6 or larger shot within 10 feet into the face of an attacker will stop the threat in a hurry! Short of the person wearing body armor under a thick leather jacket, birdshot is going to mess up some punk doper cat burglar stalkers day. If you can't afford to buy and practice with buckshot, there is nothing wrong with skeet or trap shooting to practice reload, swing, lead, fire. Self defense is a fluid situation and a person who shoots shotgun regularly is in a lot better shape to defened agaist a moving intruder than someone who just strictly shooting bullseyes on stationary targets. If you can afford buckshot great! If not, don't be scared it's not adequate for defense. Ever see the episode of Son's of guns where they made a 410 kill stick for gators shooting shot loads? A 410 is leathan when correctly employed by a confident user. I've got a friend who is obsessed about having a 44 magnum with 300 grain buffalo bore bullets or a 450 or 500 S&W magnum to put down bear when he's in the forest! We bought a pair of identical 44 Redhawks and with full power loads are both having problems keeping a good groups at 25 paces with these big barking magnums. Mid range stuff is so much more comfortable and controllable but my friend doesn't think they are adequate for bear defense! For me a 357 mag is a better overall defensive weapon because it fits my hand better and I can hit with it to some distance and group my shots pretty well. I'd feel comfortable plinking 2 liter bottles at 50 yards with the 357. I'm not holding my breath with the 44 page 30 feet! I'll keep shooting the 44 to improve cause It's fun and challenging, but the 357 for me is a much better bullet chucker for my needs. Any handgun against a bear is a big question mark so you better be able to place your shots into the vitals. Some of you are obsessed with shotgun power and shot size without considering the individual skill level of different shooters. First rule of self defense. Have a reliable gun you are confident to use under stress! If a person can confidently handle a 22 rifle they are better prepared to defend themself than someone who is unfamiliar with a big 12 guage firing slugs. I'd sure like to know statistically what percentage of guys shot point blank with bird shot were able to continue their attack?