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Old October 3, 2000, 06:53 PM   #7
Skorzeny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 1999
Posts: 1,938
Sigh... Here we go again...

tprT:

Your post tells me that you don't really have a good idea of what "grappling" martial arts are about OR what fighting on the ground is all about.

First of all, I agree with you that the ground is not the place you want to me in a violent encounter. The primary reason you should be on your feet is to enable you to escape and survive the encounter. Being on the ground reduces your mobility and makes it more difficult to escape, which should be your goal from the onset.

However, in actual street encounters, it is sometimes difficult to stay on your feet. For one thing, most violent encounters aren't duels and do not start with two ment "squaring off" against each other. Attacks involve clinches, tackles, rear chokes or headlocks, sucker-punches and other unexpected assaults. Secondly, even when a fight starts with strikes, it often degenerates into clinch/grappling and then to the ground whether the people involved intended to go there or not.

In actual fights, it is extremely difficult to take advantage of "strikes, gouges, headbuts, going to the groin" as you put it while rolling about fighting for your life. There are numerous reasons why this is difficult, but the primary reason is that these are all very positionally-dependent techniques (meaning, the person in a superior position can inflict those attacks much easier than someone who is in an inferior position, for example, while being mounted).

Grappling arts such as Judo, Sambo and Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu teach excellent techniques for ground escapes, turnovers as well as numerous submissions techniques that can easily turn into joint-breaking techniques (the difference between "holding" an armbar for a submission and actually breaking the elbow is almost non-existent).

Furthermore, these systems, because of the controllability (for a lack of a better word) of their techniques, can be practiced at full-speed with full-resistance (as I often say DYNAMICALLY). This, in turn, develops physical attributes (speed, power, explosiveness, endurance, body/balance sensitivity, etc.) AND teaches the practitioner how to deal with fully-resisting opponents.

These ground techniques once trained will allow the practitioner to resist, subdue or disable and escape the assault EVEN IF it goes to the ground unwittingly.

That's the point of "grappling" in self-defense context.

If you still think that "eye gouges" and other "dirty" techniques are the end-all, be-all of ground self-defense, I urge you to try the following experiment (which I've done numerous times).

Have a friend wear goggles and a cup (or any safety gear) as well as a pair of boxing gloves. Have him mount you. You will try to eye-gouge him or "go to the groin" as you put it while he punches your face away. See if you have the wherewithal to do these techniques while getting your face pummeled.

Now, in the same situation, a trained Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu practitioner (for example), will immediately bridge and force the person on top to "base" himself with one or both of his hands (if he doesn't, he'll be flipped). He will then trap one of the arms and/or the head (which makes it difficult for the attacker to punch) and will bridge again to reverse the position (mind you, there are dozens and dozens of things that can be done here, but this is just an example).

BTW, I am in no way suggesting that biting, eye-gouging and such have no place in self-defense. On the contrary, they can be extremely effective and useful tools for self-defense. However, you have to train in them in a scientific and dynamic fashion. Also, such training should come AFTER the practitioner understand the fundamental positions and movements on the ground.

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
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