[JohnKSa]

Statistics exist regardless of the percentage. How many people who are openly armed are victims of crime? It doesn't matter if they represent 90% of the population or 1%, there are statistics.

I didn't say that no statistics existed, I thought I was very clear. What I said was: "Until a significant percentage of the population of a particular state (by that I mean maybe 1% or so) is actually OC'ing, there won't be a way to say anything based on statistics. "

Ok, since that's apparently not clear, here's an example. Tell me the statistics on people struck by lightning while eating drinking a diet soft drink vs drinking non-diet soft drinks.

Obviously there are so few people are struck by lightning that when you combine the additional requirement that they also be drinking a soft drink at the time it's unlikely that you're going to get any data points at all.

And even if you DO get a data point or two, there's still not sufficient data to tell you anything about which is more likely to occur. Until you get a significant number of people in the studied category you can't say much about how likely they are to be in another category as well.

Concealed carry...should be left to the discretion of the person, not the government.

I agree 100%. That's why I posted this: "I believe OC should be legal..."

In "some" situations. You can't measure the number of crimes you deter.

You didn't read the examples provided in the link or you would realize how irrelevant this remark is. If you carry openly and are involved in an armed encounter, you have only the following options. Run/attempt to run, draw immediately or allow yourself to be disarmed/neutralized. It's inconceivable that an armed criminal would perpetrate a crime with an openly armed person present and simply allow that person to stand there unmolested. If, on the other hand, you are carrying concealed, you do not automatically present an immediate threat which means that you have a chance to remain part of the crowd (or at least not be thought of as an obvious threat) until there is an opportune moment to respond.

The examples I listed in the link gave some examples of situations where lives were saved as a result of a concealed gun being used successfully at the most opportune moment where an openly carried gun would have forced an encounter immediately with results that would have been questionable, at best.

So you're saying a hidden weapon is more of a deterrent than an openly displayed weapon? I think that is ridiculous.

I didn't say that. What I said was that concealed carry has shown to have a beneficial effect on violent crime because criminals know that some of the population is armed but they don't know which ones. That is a deterrent that works whether there is an armed person present or not.

A criminal can immediately tell if there is someone OC'ing. They can then simply avoid committing the crime while there is an armed person around.

Think about it this way. Police have always OCed. In spite of that, crime goes down when concealed carry laws are passed. If a few people OC'ing (police, for example) is such a deterrent to crime then why is it that CC laws further reduce crime? Because criminals don't commit crimes while there's a cop around. They just wait until the cop leaves and go ahead with their original plans. You say deterrent, I say postponement. On the other hand if you KNOW that several hundred thousand citizens in your state are armed but you can't pick them out by looking, THAT'S a deterrent. Now you can't tell who's a victim and who's armed.

Yes, OC can be a deterrent in the immediate vicinity of an OC'er although the counterexample I posted proves that this doesn't always work--and it can even make one a target. CC provides a level of deterrence everywhere, all the time.

Anecdotal. Are you saying a person carrying concealed has never been jumped from behind? That's absolutely ridiculous, if that's what you think.

First of all, I'm not attempting to say that ALL OC'ers are targets, I'm only showing that it CAN happen. Therefore it is NOT anecdotal, it is proof. It is proof that it CAN happen because it is proof that it HAS happened.

Second, I'm not saying a CC person has never been jumped from behind. What I AM saying is that a person who is successfully concealing a handgun has never INVITED attack by being armed while at least one OC person has.

I don't recall saying it was the best carry option.

I don't recall saying you said it was. I made the comment to explain my views on OC, not as a response to anything you posted.