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noylj · August 26, 2012, 09:17 PM

The whole idea of either the 9x19 or the M92 being accurate is so funny.
Maybe, and I do mean maybe, the S&W 952 might get there, but the M92 seems like an accuracy nightmare to work on.
I have four .38 Supers and EVERY one of them will shoot groups under 2" at 25 yards all day, every day. I have nine 9x19s and not a single one of them will stay under 3" at 25 yards for more than an occasional group or two.
To even begin to get any accuracy from the 9x19, you have to size and sort all your brass by length. Only those cases that are 0.750-0.754" will be capable of any sort of accuracy. The shorter cases will have excess head space and the rounds are slightly crooked in the chamber. Thus, I could see a Bullseye shooter buying 50k once fired cases and sorting them all by head stamp (I have never seen any indication that this does any good in a pistol) and by sized length until he/she has enough cases of the length and head stamp they find "best." The time and effort for all this seems rather pointless just to shoot a severely modified service pistol and 9x19 in matches, when a $1500 used wadgun could do as well or better.
I have NEVER found a round nose, whether FMJ or L-RN to be close to as accurate as a JHP or L-SWC (this is from .32 to .45, with most stops in between). However, they are more aerodynamic, so they might be better out at 100 yards or so.
I like Zero 121 .38 Super JHP and MG 124gn .355 JHP in 9x19 and .38 Super for accuracy. My 9x19s do not shoot 147gn bullets as well as these JHPs or 115gn or 124gn L-SWCs. The heavy bullets are good enough for blasting plates and action pistol, but they ARE NOT accurate. I really think you need a faster twist for the heavy bullets, particularly if you want 50 yard accuracy (not even counting how little powder volume remains and how close to the edge of KB such a massively heavy bullet is in such a small case).
Also, I find that in many, many cases, a 0.356-0.357" jacketed bullet will be more accurate than the same company's 0.355" bullet. Maybe because of the extra 0.001-0.002" of case diameter to align with the chamber. Maybe due to better barrel fit or who knows why.
The thing is, to get an accurate 9x19 takes a LOT more work than to get an accurate .38 Super or almost any other cartridge (other than an accurate .380 Auto). I suppose any cartridge can be accurate, but the 9x91 may really need a complete re-work of chamber and barrel dimensions, including rifling rate.
So, I expect that 9x19 may become popular in Bullseye Service matches, but it will take several hundred thousand dollars of work by many different 'smiths to get any where close to a standard 1911 in .45 Auto. At least we have over 100 years of gunsmith knowledge of making an accurate pistil to help, so I may be overly pessimistic.

August 26, 2012, 09:17 PM	#10
noylj Senior Member Join Date: October 21, 2007 Location: Between CA and NM Posts: 858	The whole idea of either the 9x19 or the M92 being accurate is so funny. Maybe, and I do mean maybe, the S&W 952 might get there, but the M92 seems like an accuracy nightmare to work on. I have four .38 Supers and EVERY one of them will shoot groups under 2" at 25 yards all day, every day. I have nine 9x19s and not a single one of them will stay under 3" at 25 yards for more than an occasional group or two. To even begin to get any accuracy from the 9x19, you have to size and sort all your brass by length. Only those cases that are 0.750-0.754" will be capable of any sort of accuracy. The shorter cases will have excess head space and the rounds are slightly crooked in the chamber. Thus, I could see a Bullseye shooter buying 50k once fired cases and sorting them all by head stamp (I have never seen any indication that this does any good in a pistol) and by sized length until he/she has enough cases of the length and head stamp they find "best." The time and effort for all this seems rather pointless just to shoot a severely modified service pistol and 9x19 in matches, when a $1500 used wadgun could do as well or better. I have NEVER found a round nose, whether FMJ or L-RN to be close to as accurate as a JHP or L-SWC (this is from .32 to .45, with most stops in between). However, they are more aerodynamic, so they might be better out at 100 yards or so. I like Zero 121 .38 Super JHP and MG 124gn .355 JHP in 9x19 and .38 Super for accuracy. My 9x19s do not shoot 147gn bullets as well as these JHPs or 115gn or 124gn L-SWCs. The heavy bullets are good enough for blasting plates and action pistol, but they ARE NOT accurate. I really think you need a faster twist for the heavy bullets, particularly if you want 50 yard accuracy (not even counting how little powder volume remains and how close to the edge of KB such a massively heavy bullet is in such a small case). Also, I find that in many, many cases, a 0.356-0.357" jacketed bullet will be more accurate than the same company's 0.355" bullet. Maybe because of the extra 0.001-0.002" of case diameter to align with the chamber. Maybe due to better barrel fit or who knows why. The thing is, to get an accurate 9x19 takes a LOT more work than to get an accurate .38 Super or almost any other cartridge (other than an accurate .380 Auto). I suppose any cartridge can be accurate, but the 9x91 may really need a complete re-work of chamber and barrel dimensions, including rifling rate. So, I expect that 9x19 may become popular in Bullseye Service matches, but it will take several hundred thousand dollars of work by many different 'smiths to get any where close to a standard 1911 in .45 Auto. At least we have over 100 years of gunsmith knowledge of making an accurate pistil to help, so I may be overly pessimistic.