The Firing Line Forums - View Single Post - Arizona: firearms in liquor-serving establishments

Chris_B · September 30, 2009, 12:10 PM

copy and paste:
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PHOENIX - Bartender Randy Shields was serving British brews and Arizona ambers as usual at Shady's bar in east Phoenix when he saw a customer walk in with a hunting knife strapped to his hip.

A disturbing image flashed through his mind — "that knife sliding between my ribs."

The customer willingly turned over the knife while he was in the bar, but Shields still worries about a new Arizona law that goes into effect Wednesday that will allow guns into Arizona bars and restaurants that serve alcohol.

Under the law, backed by the National Rifle Association, the 138,350 people with concealed-weapons permits in Arizona will be allowed to bring their guns into bars and restaurants that haven't posted signs banning them.

Those carrying the weapons aren't allowed to drink alcohol.

The new law has Shields and other bar owners and workers wondering: What's going to happen when guns are allowed in an atmosphere filled with booze and people with impaired judgment?

"Somebody can pull the trigger, then a bullet comes out, and people get hurt and killed," said Brad Henrich, owner of Shady's, a popular neighborhood bar that sees occasional minor scuffles. "The idea of anyone coming in with guns in a place that serves alcohol just seems ludicrous."

A sign that says "No Firearms Allowed" and shows a red slash over a gun now hangs next to Henrich's liquor license. If a bar owner does not post such a state-approved sign, people with concealed weapons are allowed in with their guns.

There is no way to track how many of Arizona's 5,800 bars and restaurants that serve alcohol have posted such signs. The Arizona Department of Liquor Licensing and Control has signs available for download on its Web site and doesn't track that figure.

The department has provided 1,300 signs to bar and restaurant owners who went to the department in person or asked to have signs mailed to them.

Some say signs look ‘scary’
A similar law took effect in July in Tennessee, with the same reaction from many bar owners who posted signs banning firearms. The NRA says 41 states now allow guns in businesses that serve alcohol.

"I hate to have to put them up," Mark DeSimone, owner of the Hidden House Cocktail Lounge in central Phoenix, said of the signs. "It looks scary. It looks to somebody like, should I go in this place because they obviously have a problem with people bringing weapons in."

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Hmm. let me speak my opinion on this a bit.

"That knife sliding between my ribs". Perhaps a viable concern. Bars and resturants have cash. But what the heck does this have to do with a law that allows firearms in a bar?? Nothing. And somebody should mention to this man: no law on earth will stop somebody whose intent is to harm you. Resturants GIVE ME sharp knives right next to my glass of scotch, when I have a steak! I don't have to bring one with me! So this logic is...only a person wearing a knife would stab this guy? Flawed, stupid, and dangerous logic.

"Those carrying the weapons aren't allowed to drink alcohol. " So, the law is about concealed carry, and the law says you can't drink while carrying.
And the problem is....??????

"The new law has Shields and other bar owners and workers wondering: What's going to happen when guns are allowed in an atmosphere filled with booze and people with impaired judgment" Two points here:

1) the same thing that already happens but you just didn't know about- we're talking concealed firearms here!

2) the concealed firearms bearers are prohibiting from drinking. Read that sentence again. So he thinks that laws banning them from carrying will stop this problem becasue people will not break the law, but also thinks that people carrying will drink and therefore break the law, making the laws things that people ignore. How does that work both ways? Answer: it doesn't. Concealed firearms permits are presumably not handed out with every pack of chewing gum in AZ.

""Somebody can pull the trigger, then a bullet comes out, and people get hurt and killed," said Brad Henrich, owner of Shady's, a popular neighborhood bar that sees occasional minor scuffles." Two points here, too:

1) Your establishment is already "Shady", sir. Minor scuffles do not get enacted at reputable places with any regularity. Yours does. People are already being hurt inside your establishment. Clean up your own backyard, then complain about safety inside your joint

2) Somebody can always pull the trigger and a bullet comes out- regardless of this law or any other. That includes somebody from off the street, as well as a patron that disregards the law in the first place- a situation your establishment is already one that has that potential, see point 1

""The idea of anyone coming in with guns in a place that serves alcohol just seems ludicrous." So do not allow any member of the Police inside either.

"A sign that says "No Firearms Allowed" and shows a red slash over a gun now hangs next to Henrich's liquor license. If a bar owner does not post such a state-approved sign, people with concealed weapons are allowed in with their guns. ". An up-front, logical, and effective measure. The bar owner makes his choice, I make mine. And the problem is....????

""I hate to have to put them up," Mark DeSimone, owner of the Hidden House Cocktail Lounge in central Phoenix, said of the signs. "It looks scary. It looks to somebody like, should I go in this place because they obviously have a problem with people bringing weapons in." Then make your own clear and concise sign that states: "The owners of this establishment reserve the right to refuse entry to any patron carrying a firearm". Have a nice wooden sign made. The beef seems to be the easy to get and free sign (did I mention free) that is convenient for you.

Now, in general, if I'm a designated driver and I want to carry, then that's my right. I go in, have a coca cola, drive my friends away.

The "evil booze" and the "evil guns" do not make my choices. I make those choices. I can kill people just as easily with my car, and I can drive my car to your bar, and I can drink and then drive. Or I could choose to call a cab. I don't need to use the "evil car" that makes me kill or hurt people. Same deal with the firearm. I've had a loaded pistol in my hands 5 feet from another human many many times. I've never shot anyone

This is a non-issue in my opinion.

September 30, 2009, 12:10 PM	#1
Chris_B Senior Member Join Date: February 9, 2007 Posts: 3,101	Arizona: firearms in liquor-serving establishments copy and paste: *********************** PHOENIX - Bartender Randy Shields was serving British brews and Arizona ambers as usual at Shady's bar in east Phoenix when he saw a customer walk in with a hunting knife strapped to his hip. A disturbing image flashed through his mind — "that knife sliding between my ribs." The customer willingly turned over the knife while he was in the bar, but Shields still worries about a new Arizona law that goes into effect Wednesday that will allow guns into Arizona bars and restaurants that serve alcohol. Under the law, backed by the National Rifle Association, the 138,350 people with concealed-weapons permits in Arizona will be allowed to bring their guns into bars and restaurants that haven't posted signs banning them. Those carrying the weapons aren't allowed to drink alcohol. The new law has Shields and other bar owners and workers wondering: What's going to happen when guns are allowed in an atmosphere filled with booze and people with impaired judgment? "Somebody can pull the trigger, then a bullet comes out, and people get hurt and killed," said Brad Henrich, owner of Shady's, a popular neighborhood bar that sees occasional minor scuffles. "The idea of anyone coming in with guns in a place that serves alcohol just seems ludicrous." A sign that says "No Firearms Allowed" and shows a red slash over a gun now hangs next to Henrich's liquor license. If a bar owner does not post such a state-approved sign, people with concealed weapons are allowed in with their guns. There is no way to track how many of Arizona's 5,800 bars and restaurants that serve alcohol have posted such signs. The Arizona Department of Liquor Licensing and Control has signs available for download on its Web site and doesn't track that figure. The department has provided 1,300 signs to bar and restaurant owners who went to the department in person or asked to have signs mailed to them. Some say signs look ‘scary’ A similar law took effect in July in Tennessee, with the same reaction from many bar owners who posted signs banning firearms. The NRA says 41 states now allow guns in businesses that serve alcohol. "I hate to have to put them up," Mark DeSimone, owner of the Hidden House Cocktail Lounge in central Phoenix, said of the signs. "It looks scary. It looks to somebody like, should I go in this place because they obviously have a problem with people bringing weapons in." *********************** Hmm. let me speak my opinion on this a bit. "That knife sliding between my ribs*". Perhaps a viable concern. Bars and resturants have cash. But what the heck does this have to do with a law that allows firearms in a bar?? Nothing. And somebody should mention to this man: no law on earth will stop somebody whose intent is to harm you. Resturants GIVE ME sharp knives right next to my glass of scotch, when I have a steak! I don't have to bring one with me! So this logic is...only a person wearing* a knife would stab this guy? Flawed, stupid, and dangerous logic. "Those carrying the weapons aren't allowed to drink alcohol. " So, the law is about concealed carry, and the law says you can't drink while carrying. And the problem is....?????? "The new law has Shields and other bar owners and workers wondering: What's going to happen when guns are allowed in an atmosphere filled with booze and people with impaired judgment" Two points here: 1) the same thing that already happens but you just didn't know about- we're talking concealed firearms here! 2) the concealed firearms bearers are prohibiting from drinking. Read that sentence again. So he thinks that laws banning them from carrying will stop this problem becasue people will not break the law, but also thinks that people carrying will drink and therefore break the law, making the laws things that people ignore. How does that work both ways? Answer: it doesn't. Concealed firearms permits are presumably not handed out with every pack of chewing gum in AZ. ""Somebody can pull the trigger, then a bullet comes out, and people get hurt and killed," said Brad Henrich, owner of Shady's, a popular neighborhood bar that sees occasional minor scuffles." Two points here, too: 1) Your establishment is already "Shady", sir. Minor scuffles do not get enacted at reputable places with any regularity. Yours does. People are already being hurt inside your establishment. Clean up your own backyard, then complain about safety inside your joint 2) Somebody can always pull the trigger and a bullet comes out- regardless of this law or any other. That includes somebody from off the street, as well as a patron that disregards the law in the first place- a situation your establishment is already one that has that potential, see point 1 ""The idea of anyone coming in with guns in a place that serves alcohol just seems ludicrous." So do not allow any member of the Police inside either. "A sign that says "No Firearms Allowed" and shows a red slash over a gun now hangs next to Henrich's liquor license. If a bar owner does not post such a state-approved sign, people with concealed weapons are allowed in with their guns. ". An up-front, logical, and effective measure. The bar owner makes his choice, I make mine. And the problem is....???? ""I hate to have to put them up," Mark DeSimone, owner of the Hidden House Cocktail Lounge in central Phoenix, said of the signs. "It looks scary. It looks to somebody like, should I go in this place because they obviously have a problem with people bringing weapons in." Then make your own clear and concise sign that states: "The owners of this establishment reserve the right to refuse entry to any patron carrying a firearm". Have a nice wooden sign made. The beef seems to be the easy to get and free sign (did I mention free) that is convenient for you. Now, in general, if I'm a designated driver and I want to carry, then that's my right. I go in, have a coca cola, drive my friends away. The "evil booze" and the "evil guns" do not make my choices. I make those choices. I can kill people just as easily with my car, and I can drive my car to your bar, and I can drink and then drive. Or I could choose to call a cab. I don't need to use the "evil car" that makes me kill or hurt people. Same deal with the firearm. I've had a loaded pistol in my hands 5 feet from another human many many times. I've never shot anyone This is a non-issue in my opinion.