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BadMedicine · July 26, 2000, 10:58 PM

Kieth, you said there is no clear cut, shoot, or dont shoot rule, but I'll give you one, it works 100% of the time for me. If I'm in fear of my life.....I'll be pumping lead. That's my rule cut and dried, I wont die for some sorry assed bear who can't share the creek.

here are your supposed options...

"1: Shoot, and hope you kill him dead right NOW." Hope? when I shoot, especially if a bear was charging, there'd be no luck involved, I'm a pretty good shot and confident of my 10 yrd abuilities.

"2: Don't shoot - yell, eventually try and sneak away, whatever."

"3: Spray the son of a bitch (while somebody covers with a rifle)" If you have a rifle to cover him with I dont see a reason in pepper spraying him and enraging him more. You said that 99.9% were bluffing and wouldn't charge, for that .1% I'm not bluffing, I don't carry a gun for looks, if he's going to charge I'm not trusting my life to a can of Raid.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Keith Rogan:
J.,

Yes, of course you're entitled to your opinion. I agree with you on the Garrett loads - if you must use a .44, Garrett would be the way to go.
The point that I can't seem to get across (likely lost in my own verbosity) is that most negative bear encounters are fairly ambiguous. Theres no clear cut "shoot - don't shoot" rule you can go by.

I suppose if you live and hunt the Northern Rockies where you may only have one grizzly every 500 square miles, you may only run into one "aggressive" bear in your whole life. Ok, so don't take any chances and shoot if in doubt.
Theres one bear per square mile on this island and that density holds true for much of coastal Alaska. You simply can't go on a fishing or hunting trip and shoot 2 or 3 bears every time you go out. Its just not an option you want to take - you'd end up with a felony conviction, lose your gun rights, your hunting privileges, pay enormous fines, etc. You have to cut it a little finer around here, use more judgement and yes - take more risks.

If you run into a bear on a trail who won't back down, you have three options:

If you don't carry the spray, you've reduced your options by 1/3.
Thats all, pepper spray gives you one additional option - a middle course to choose between fight or flight.

I don't want to sound like I'm thumping my chest - I assure you that my balls are no bigger than the next guys. Everyone who hunts and fishes around here can tell you similar stories.
I've backed down a lot of bears. I've chased them off trails by yelling and waving my hat. I've had them take deer from me - once at a range only 5 or 6 feet a big male came out of the brush like a ghost, looked at me and carried away a 4 point buck like a dog with a rabbit. I've had bears do wild threat displays pounding the earth and popping their teeth at ten or twenty yards. Many, many times I've had bears at close range who just "puff up" and sort of try and freeze you out - just stand there unwilling to back down.

The bear who got me didn't do any of those things. It just attacked on sight and THATS how real bear maulings happen.
The dog that bites you doesn't stand there barking at you first - it just bites. Its the same way with bears. If you don't run, if you just stand your ground with a "barking" bear, you're fairly safe.

I'm not a biologist and certainly not an "expert" but I've had a lot of bear encounters and have some basis to judge by.

If its actually going to attack, you'll know - it'll be charging you at 35 miles per hour, not puffing up and clicking its teeth. A charge is no time for pepper spray - its .375 H&H time.

As for bear sprays - they are not necessarily the same thing as those little cans that cops carry. UDAP and some others are making stuff that is much hotter, has greater range and is formulated just for bears. There are some filmed tests done in Yakutat where brown bears are hit with UDAP sprays. The bears turn practically inside-out and run away bawling. The stuff does work.

[/quote]

July 26, 2000, 10:58 PM	#14
BadMedicine Junior member Join Date: July 7, 2000 Location: Anchorage Posts: 863	Kieth, you said there is no clear cut, shoot, or dont shoot rule, but I'll give you one, it works 100% of the time for me. If I'm in fear of my life.....I'll be pumping lead. That's my rule cut and dried, I wont die for some sorry assed bear who can't share the creek. here are your supposed options... "1: Shoot, and hope you kill him dead right NOW." Hope? when I shoot, especially if a bear was charging, there'd be no luck involved, I'm a pretty good shot and confident of my 10 yrd abuilities. "2: Don't shoot - yell, eventually try and sneak away, whatever." "3: Spray the son of a bitch (while somebody covers with a rifle)" If you have a rifle to cover him with I dont see a reason in pepper spraying him and enraging him more. You said that 99.9% were bluffing and wouldn't charge, for that .1% I'm not bluffing, I don't carry a gun for looks, if he's going to charge I'm not trusting my life to a can of Raid. <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Keith Rogan: J., Yes, of course you're entitled to your opinion. I agree with you on the Garrett loads - if you must use a .44, Garrett would be the way to go. The point that I can't seem to get across (likely lost in my own verbosity) is that most negative bear encounters are fairly ambiguous. Theres no clear cut "shoot - don't shoot" rule you can go by. I suppose if you live and hunt the Northern Rockies where you may only have one grizzly every 500 square miles, you may only run into one "aggressive" bear in your whole life. Ok, so don't take any chances and shoot if in doubt. Theres one bear per square mile on this island and that density holds true for much of coastal Alaska. You simply can't go on a fishing or hunting trip and shoot 2 or 3 bears every time you go out. Its just not an option you want to take - you'd end up with a felony conviction, lose your gun rights, your hunting privileges, pay enormous fines, etc. You have to cut it a little finer around here, use more judgement and yes - take more risks. If you run into a bear on a trail who won't back down, you have three options: If you don't carry the spray, you've reduced your options by 1/3. Thats all, pepper spray gives you one additional option - a middle course to choose between fight or flight. I don't want to sound like I'm thumping my chest - I assure you that my balls are no bigger than the next guys. Everyone who hunts and fishes around here can tell you similar stories. I've backed down a lot of bears. I've chased them off trails by yelling and waving my hat. I've had them take deer from me - once at a range only 5 or 6 feet a big male came out of the brush like a ghost, looked at me and carried away a 4 point buck like a dog with a rabbit. I've had bears do wild threat displays pounding the earth and popping their teeth at ten or twenty yards. Many, many times I've had bears at close range who just "puff up" and sort of try and freeze you out - just stand there unwilling to back down. The bear who got me didn't do any of those things. It just attacked on sight and THATS how real bear maulings happen. The dog that bites you doesn't stand there barking at you first - it just bites. Its the same way with bears. If you don't run, if you just stand your ground with a "barking" bear, you're fairly safe. I'm not a biologist and certainly not an "expert" but I've had a lot of bear encounters and have some basis to judge by. If its actually going to attack, you'll know - it'll be charging you at 35 miles per hour, not puffing up and clicking its teeth. A charge is no time for pepper spray - its .375 H&H time. As for bear sprays - they are not necessarily the same thing as those little cans that cops carry. UDAP and some others are making stuff that is much hotter, has greater range and is formulated just for bears. There are some filmed tests done in Yakutat where brown bears are hit with UDAP sprays. The bears turn practically inside-out and run away bawling. The stuff does work. [/quote]