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Navy joe · September 13, 2001, 02:53 PM

I just can't stand it anymore. To all that pigeonhole an ethnic group or religion based on the actions of its 5%, maybe you should consider moving to northern Ireland, Rwanda, or someplace else where it is apparently ok to kill someone just because what church or tribe, clan etc. they were raised up in. This is AMERICA where we were all supposed to be taught not to judge a book by its cover, you know regardless of race, creed, or national origin. We hated the Catholics when they first came over, so most of them went to Maryland. We thought the quakers were a little odd so they went to PA. Later we hated the catholics again when they came to New york. Weren't really sure if we could trust 'em enough to elect Kennedy. We hate Mexicans, SE asian boat people etc. Do I even need to mention the American Indians and Blacks? How about all the loyal Japanese citizens we put in CONCENTRATION CAMPS in WWII? It's shameful behavior, completely unAmerican people, Lets see "All men are created equal", "Give me your tired huddled masses", do your blanket condemnations align with what it means to be American?

Islamic peoples in general. I am no expert, but having been to more than a few countries in travel I believe that the commonality of humans will save us. Many around the world have the same basic values, they want clean water, good schools, and a safe home. I never felt unfriendlyness from common people in Islamic countries, It is as someone pointed out the clerics who are to blame, they lead the undereducated masses if they wish. Much the same as our media I might add. The clerics worship power, NOT ISLAM, and they preach obedience and zealous commitment to their word, NOT ISLAM. Want to se success? Look at Turkey. When Kemal Ataturk made the nation a secular one and preached education and engagement with the world he saved his country from the clerics and the people knew it. Hell we would forget George Washington if he wasn't on the quarter, if you want to see a national hero check out Ataturk. Damn I love that country! The clerics know that one can't get stuffed back in the bottle.

Islamic people in particular. I am sure you would like to dismiss all cases as the exception to the rule, but here goes. One of my shipmates came in the Navy right after the Cole was bombed(Don't forget her!). No big deal except for the fact that his ethnicity is 100% Yemeni. How do you think boot camp was for him? Now this. He can't go smoke without four smallminded sailors berating him because he is Muslim and brown. Where was he anyway yesterday? Standing a security watch professionally and with an upbeat attitude. Want more? He maintains his composure even though he was born and raised in NYC! What does he want to do this weekend? Drive up there and help. People that blindly condemn people by group make me sick! If you would like to harrass a Muslim, please stop by my hangar. You try it and I'll personally educate you. Enough said.

So yes we should go to war. Any government that sponsored any of this or harbors fugitives is the enemy. By the laws of war we would protect non-combatants when possible. Many would still die, its a given going in. Still we must act as Americans, to show to the world that we do adhere to our ideals as just warriors and to also show them that principles like national sovreignity and freedom are not open to debate. We cannot blindly lash out and level a city, that's what they tried to do to us.

Further, when at war we cannot cut and run or restrain ourselves for fear of American casualties. It is the people's and medias fault and it is embarrassing. American soldiers used to be known for their tenacity, the willingness to bear any burden or overcome the worst odds. The Fighters still will. The world's thugs know however that the people will clamor for their children back if our nose is bloodied though. That is in part due to the POW/MIA movement who have conditioned America to expect every piece back even if it's 30 years later and we are crashing helicopters with live soldiers in it looking for bone fragments stuck in a hillside. Combined with people seeing war in real time and color and politicians who breathe opinion polls. The end result is a disheartened military, an emboldened enemy and a public that thinks they can be a world superpower with no military losses. In a word, Coddled! Yeah, I am a REMF that fixes airplanes. In my heart I have always felt a coldness that may belong somewhere a lot further toward the tip of the spear. I'm still trying to get my chance. Dismiss my comments if you wish, but if you join the military you should be willing to die. Same if you are really an American. I am.

In closing my rant let me recognize that I express unpopular views, but hell I open my big mouth every day. I guess that makes me rather unpopular except for a select few individuals that share an open mind. Please people lets show some of the tolerance and moral strength this country was founded on.

THE END

September 13, 2001, 02:53 PM	#79
Navy joe Senior Member Join Date: January 28, 2001 Location: VA, USA Posts: 1,804	I just can't stand it anymore. To all that pigeonhole an ethnic group or religion based on the actions of its 5%, maybe you should consider moving to northern Ireland, Rwanda, or someplace else where it is apparently ok to kill someone just because what church or tribe, clan etc. they were raised up in. This is AMERICA where we were all supposed to be taught not to judge a book by its cover, you know regardless of race, creed, or national origin. We hated the Catholics when they first came over, so most of them went to Maryland. We thought the quakers were a little odd so they went to PA. Later we hated the catholics again when they came to New york. Weren't really sure if we could trust 'em enough to elect Kennedy. We hate Mexicans, SE asian boat people etc. Do I even need to mention the American Indians and Blacks? How about all the loyal Japanese citizens we put in CONCENTRATION CAMPS in WWII? It's shameful behavior, completely unAmerican people, Lets see "All men are created equal", "Give me your tired huddled masses", do your blanket condemnations align with what it means to be American? Islamic peoples in general. I am no expert, but having been to more than a few countries in travel I believe that the commonality of humans will save us. Many around the world have the same basic values, they want clean water, good schools, and a safe home. I never felt unfriendlyness from common people in Islamic countries, It is as someone pointed out the clerics who are to blame, they lead the undereducated masses if they wish. Much the same as our media I might add. The clerics worship power, NOT ISLAM, and they preach obedience and zealous commitment to their word, NOT ISLAM. Want to se success? Look at Turkey. When Kemal Ataturk made the nation a secular one and preached education and engagement with the world he saved his country from the clerics and the people knew it. Hell we would forget George Washington if he wasn't on the quarter, if you want to see a national hero check out Ataturk. Damn I love that country! The clerics know that one can't get stuffed back in the bottle. Islamic people in particular. I am sure you would like to dismiss all cases as the exception to the rule, but here goes. One of my shipmates came in the Navy right after the Cole was bombed(Don't forget her!). No big deal except for the fact that his ethnicity is 100% Yemeni. How do you think boot camp was for him? Now this. He can't go smoke without four smallminded sailors berating him because he is Muslim and brown. Where was he anyway yesterday? Standing a security watch professionally and with an upbeat attitude. Want more? He maintains his composure even though he was born and raised in NYC! What does he want to do this weekend? Drive up there and help. People that blindly condemn people by group make me sick! If you would like to harrass a Muslim, please stop by my hangar. You try it and I'll personally educate you. Enough said. So yes we should go to war. Any government that sponsored any of this or harbors fugitives is the enemy. By the laws of war we would protect non-combatants when possible. Many would still die, its a given going in. Still we must act as Americans, to show to the world that we do adhere to our ideals as just warriors and to also show them that principles like national sovreignity and freedom are not open to debate. We cannot blindly lash out and level a city, that's what they tried to do to us. Further, when at war we cannot cut and run or restrain ourselves for fear of American casualties. It is the people's and medias fault and it is embarrassing. American soldiers used to be known for their tenacity, the willingness to bear any burden or overcome the worst odds. The Fighters still will. The world's thugs know however that the people will clamor for their children back if our nose is bloodied though. That is in part due to the POW/MIA movement who have conditioned America to expect every piece back even if it's 30 years later and we are crashing helicopters with live soldiers in it looking for bone fragments stuck in a hillside. Combined with people seeing war in real time and color and politicians who breathe opinion polls. The end result is a disheartened military, an emboldened enemy and a public that thinks they can be a world superpower with no military losses. In a word, Coddled! Yeah, I am a REMF that fixes airplanes. In my heart I have always felt a coldness that may belong somewhere a lot further toward the tip of the spear. I'm still trying to get my chance. Dismiss my comments if you wish, but if you join the military you should be willing to die. Same if you are really an American. I am. In closing my rant let me recognize that I express unpopular views, but hell I open my big mouth every day. I guess that makes me rather unpopular except for a select few individuals that share an open mind. Please people lets show some of the tolerance and moral strength this country was founded on. THE END __________________ FY47012