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Old April 16, 2013, 10:03 AM   #118
zukiphile
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Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 1,623
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kochman
Do you understand that this does not keep the felon from getting a gun?
As I previously cited here, it does.
Between 2002-2003, over 120k people were denied firearms due to 4473.
That kept them from getting the gun from FFLs.
If we expanded that to all stranger-stranger transfers, it would prevent all but family and black market acquisitions.
Emphasis added. Note the bolded language. Your citation does not indicate that those individuals were unable to procure firearms. It indicates they were denied an FFL transfer. From the text of your response, I can tell that you understand that denying someone a legal transfer does not deny them the possession of a common item.

Since your suggestion would not deny the possession of a common item to the prohibited population, it cannot achieve its suggested end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kochman
Absolutely, because it makes it extra super double more expensive, at a minimum, and is yet another charge you can throw at them during the commission of a crime if they use their illegal gun...
Charges - Crime, illegal possession of firearm, illegal purchase of firearm (instead of, ooops, he bought it at a gun show)
Your response has two components. First, avoiding a records check for which a fee is required does not increase the cost of a transaction. On the contrary, it decreases the cost. That result is perverse.

Second, the possession of a firearm by a prohibited person is already illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kochman
There are very few things I can guarantee, but I believe I can guarantee this: somewhere at some point in the future someone will be wrongly killed with a legally purchased firearm, and there is nothing you can propose which will prevent that.

And why does this mean we shouldn't use a 4473?
Because it does not prevent anyone from wrongly killing another person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kochman
I've documented that it has stopped a lot of potential crimes (of that 120k, you can't honestly tell me that nothing was prevented).
You have not documented that a crime has been stopped. You have described the commission of a separate crime. I can honestly tell you that no one is prevented the possession of a firearm simply because he is denied 4473 transfer.

Your speculation that felons with murder in their hearts were prevented from accomplishing those murders when they were denied a 4473 transfer is implausible.

The burden on the civil right involved is not speculative.

Last edited by zukiphile; April 16, 2013 at 10:10 AM.
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