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Old April 16, 2013, 09:31 AM   #107
Spats McGee
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Join Date: July 28, 2010
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 5,077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kochman
Again, when life and death, err on the side of caution.
I am erring on the side of caution. I am erring on the side of caution for those people who really do need a gun right now. I am erring on the side of caution in favor of 2A rights.

Appeasement has not worked in the past, and I see no reason to believe that it will work in this case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kochman
We do the same thing with airplane travel, and yes, it temporarily screws some people over, but protects others.
Airplane travel isn't a constitutionally-protected right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kochman
No, the 4473 doesn't prevent anyone from buying a gun that shouldn't be denied. It may slow down the process for some people temporarily. I know it doesn't slow me down in any of my purchases. The wife should file a restraining order, etc, and plan it out a little better. Get the gun beforehand.
Plan it out better?!? Call the local battered women's shelter and tell those women that they should have planned it out better. I'm sure that will go over well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kochman
Yes, I am totally willing to have you ensure that you aren't selling to a violent sociopath with a record. That you aren't is irresponsible. I believe in responsible gun ownership.
I believe in responsible gun ownership, too, but I'm not willing to concede more ground in the 2A realm. As the law stands, it's illegal for me to sell a firearm to anyone when I "know or have reasonable cause to believe" that their possession of same would be illegal. I think that's enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kochman
You've yet to demonstrate how the 4473 takes away your 2A rights, so, until you do, please stop repeating that nonsense.
We've covered that. Your unwillingness to comprehend it notwithstanding, the short answer is that delaying a right is temporarily denying a right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kochman
The 4473 only lets us know if someone has already had their rights adjudicated away. It is not a deciding document, it is a record check. Nothing more.
Yes, and it's used in a NICS check, which is a deciding process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kochman
No, the 2A never says acquiring a firearm is going to be a completely convenient and data free process.
Constitutional rights are rarely convenient, either for the citizen or the government. So?

As for passports, like I said, it's been some time since I traveled out of the country. Perhaps they've changed the procedures since I last traveled abroad (~7 years ago), but I cannot recall having ever had my passport checked on the way out of the USA. The operative phrase here may be: "cannot recall."
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