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Old April 16, 2013, 09:22 AM   #103
zukiphile
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 13, 2005
Posts: 1,653
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kochman
@Spats
Dude, if you can't handle the occasional and rare temporary restriction for those who are false negatives... then you probably lead a very upset life.
Let's not make this personal.

If justice delayed is justice denied, then an undue delay in clearing a 4473 is a genuine injustice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kochman
Again, when life and death, err on the side of caution.
That is not a correct test for the protection of a civil right. The protection of civil rights will sometimes have unfortunate consequences. To err on the side of safety will necessarily obliterate any civil right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kochman
Yes, I am totally willing to have you ensure that you aren't selling to a violent sociopath with a record. That you aren't is irresponsible. I believe in responsible gun ownership.
The issue presented here is not ownership, but the transfer process. Does invoking criminal liability for the failure to complete a 4473 check "ensure that you aren't selling to a violent sociopath with a record"? I doubt you believe that it does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kochman
You've yet to demonstrate how the 4473 takes away your 2A rights, so, until you do, please stop repeating that nonsense.
The 4473 only lets us know if someone has already had their rights adjudicated away. It is not a deciding document, it is a record check. Nothing more.
If the record check prevents me from illegally obtaining the device I need in order to exercise a civil right, then that record check is the mechanism by which I am prevented from exercising the right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kochman
No, the 2A never says acquiring a firearm is going to be a completely convenient and data free process
Yet, where the exercise of a right is made gratuitously difficult or expensive, it is fair to ask whether the difficulty and expense is required for the purpose of showing the exercise of the right itself.
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