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Old March 22, 2013, 11:57 PM   #28
Frank Ettin
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Join Date: November 23, 2005
Location: California - San Francisco
Posts: 6,764
Quote:
Originally Posted by elDiabloLoco
...My actual implication is that the weapons are not the issue. Gun control is about people control...
And that is why pointing to Switzerland and Israel is not helpful. Guns are closely controlled in Switzerland and Israel.

The rules in Switzerland were discussed in the article (written by a Swiss gun owner) to which Aguila Blanca linked in post 22. Those rules include obtaining a licenses for all guns, a background check and registration. Additional rules, including specified military training, apply to keeping one's military service guns at home.

The rules are more strict in Israel. I outlined those rules, based on information obtained from the website of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership, in this post:
Quote:
See this:
Quote:
The Israel Dept. of the Interior makes notification to the general public the requirements necessary for the obtaining of a permit to possess a firearm:

1. Applicant must be a permanent resident of Israel for 3 consecutive years prior to making application for a firearms permit.

2. Applicant must be 21 years of age.

3. The permit request must be for personal use, not to engage in the business of firearms sales.

4. Applicant must fall into one of the following categories:

a. Part-time reservist (volunteer) for 3 years- may own 1 handgun
b. Such a reservist (volunteer) is a member of a gun club - may own 1 rifle
c. Professional, licensed public transportation driver, transporting a minimum of 5 passengers - may own 1 handgun
d. Licensed animal control officer- may own 2 hunting rifles, *not* full automatic weapons, or semi-automatic weapons with a limited capacity magazine.
e. Full-time dealer of jewelry or large sums of cash or valuables - may own 1 handgun

West Bank and Gaza Strip Settlers:

1. A resident in a militarily strategic buffer zone, essential to the security of the State of Israel - may own 1 handgun

2. A business owner in these geographic areas - may own 1 handgun

Veterans:

1. Veterans of the Regular Army honorably discharged with the rank of non-commissioned officer, and veterans of the Reserve Army with the rank of regimental commander- may own 1 handgun

2. Retired law enforcement officers with the rank of sergeant - may own 1 handgun

3. Retired prison guards with the rank of squadron commander- may own 1 handgun

Individuals:

Upon presenting documentation that one is about to receive a souvenir, a prize, an inheritance, or an award of appreciation from the Israel military.

People of the Gun by Larry Derfner (in the Jerusalem Post, May 19, 2002)
Quote:
Originally Posted by elDiabloLoco
...Nor do the Swiss and Israeli's have a societal collapse due to their citizens possession of battle implements...
Would it be acceptable to you if United States citizens were permitted to possess military weapons on the same terms and subject to the same conditions that apply to Swiss and Israeli citizens' possession of such weapons (see above)? Gun control advocates might well argue that the reason it works in Switzerland and Israel is the governmental control applied to such possession.

I don't think that's where you want to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elDiabloLoco
...Timidity is not a useful negotiation stratagem,...
Neither are specious arguments.

I'm not trying to be critical. The goal here is to help us all be more effective advocates for the RKBA. It's important to our cause to develop the habit of rigorously investigating the facts we rely on and base our arguments on verifiable and well understood facts from solid, reputable sources -- not rumor or incomplete information.
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"It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper
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