I have heard both of those arguments and yes they can be refuted but you are correct about it helping to say that the good guys have some training. .
But its never an ideal situation for anyone confronted with a mass shooter.
The points of their argument in this context are not reasonable. Lets call it what it is a step to total gun ban
FWIW, most all CCW permits have to take a class to obtain, technically they have some modicum of training.
edit to add calling it what it is
lightweight, cheap, strong... pick 2
Last edited by Koda94; March 17, 2013 at 12:11 PM.