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Old February 12, 2013, 05:46 PM   #40
Flopsweat
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Join Date: July 28, 2011
Posts: 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by zincwarrior
Why are you assuming its a false arrest? I don't know about all states, but I know here, failure to identify yourself will get you legally arrested, where they will sort out your identity. If they are lawful orders, they are lawful orders, and you will be arrested if you violate them.

Most of these encounters that you see or hear about where the citizen is refusing to show ID are in states where ID is only required if you are detained. The officer in question either does not have RAS/PC and has not detained the citizen but is trying to intimidate them, or is ignorant of the law and is effecting an illegal detainment or arrest. These were the two most common causes of lawsuits in my area. And the lawsuits were necessary. Complaints to LEAs, prosecutors, mayors and so forth fell on deaf ears. Nothing, and I mean nothing but a lawsuit persuaded them to stop violating peoples' rights, even after they saw neighboring jurisdictions suffer the same consequences.

Not all of the citizens in the videos are necessarily being nice about it - there seem to be a lot of copycat videos out there where they are just trying to provoke the police - but here's the general scenario (This is not me, by the way: It's just an example):

It's legal in my area to OC (open carry) but the local police will try to intimidate anyone who tries. Numerous letters and phone calls have had no effect. It's always he said she said. Someone has to do something. From now on, when we open carry let's bring a camera and a voice recorder. If one of us gets hassled, the other should record.

Soon enough, another encounter, the officer does his same routine, figuring he'll scare another person into submission. What's this? He's not falling for it? Well maybe a little ride downtown will straighten him out.

What's this, a lawsuit? Great, what next. And of course what next is the mayor screaming at the police chief about how he's blown the city budget for the next decade and how would you like to be driving the same patrol cars five years from now?

The people who did this originally were taking a big risk, but with the hope that they could change the illegal behavior of the police. Some of them did for the greater good, some out of pure stubbornness. Most of them behaved respectfully and simply refused to be bullied. Some of them brought real change to their communities and forced the police back in line. When you think about it, most departments do require frequent praise and occasional discipline, the same way that a puppy or a politician would. At any rate, the later videos that you see all over YouTube are mostly folks copying this same concept, but not always as carefully or respectfully, and often at far less risk. Done wrong, all it does is cheese off LE and make you look like an [donkey].
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