Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Towards the end of the hearing, Judge Andre M. Davis suggested the court could find that the recent rulings do not apply outside the home — with the intention of sending the case to the Supreme Court, which he hoped might be able to offer some clarity.
OK, Krucam made it back and posted:
The Senior Judge on the panel was Judge King, and he did the lion's share of the talking. Monday morning quarterback suggests he is likely going to be the one guaranteed vote against us.
Met a reporter from the B'more Sun (Ian) and spoke with him for a few. Met briefly with a female reporter (forgot her name) from WashPo, we might see something from them as well.
MDSP Superintendent Brown came in, dressed up in his dress uniform. You'll never guess who ended up sitting next to me for all 4 cases... Just a little uncomfortable...
State Atty Matthew Fader had the first time up in front of the panel. Judge King almost immediately started going into Younger Abstention. Younger Abstention was brought up in District. It suggests a plaintiff needs to exhaust all remedies before "bothering" the Federal Courts. In Woollard's case, he was denied by MDSP, appealed to the hangun review board and was denied, he COULD have gone through the MD State Courts after that....that is where Judge King was leading...
1) Snowden & Scherr are two cases in the MD State cellar showing why it would be a waste of time exercising a Carrry case through State Cts
2) Why is this Appellate Judge wondering about this in the first place???
3) Perhaps, just wishing it wasn't before him??
Back to Mr Fader's time on the clock...
- Fader brought up to the Court that Younger was put to rest at District.
- That didn't stop Judge King, he asked about Rooker Feldman Abstention, if Younger didn't work....
- The State of MD recognizes the right outside the home....you can go to the range, militarily train, yada, yada, yada. Oh, only handguns are impacted by 5-306/4-203, so rifles & shotguns are OK. Yep, and the Judges had fun with that and the State held firm on that...
- Judge Davis chimed in, asking if the statute impacted Concealed Carry Only. He's clearly exploring the Open vs CCW angle. Recall, VA has no-permit Open Carry, permit-req'd CCW.
- Fader replies that it is only a "Carry" statute, not Open/Concealed specific.
- Judge Davis starts suggesting GSR for CCW, no GSR for Open...I want to catch the audio, but he was definitely going down that path...
- Judge Diaz (?) brought up that the District Court Injunction may have been "too broad". He definitely seemed to be probing to a degree at that time.
- Fader goes on with his prepared remarks, saying while Self Defense is core to the right, it only exists "In the Home", outside the home hasn't been established yet. (sorta truth)
- Discussion then went into the CA4 Masciandaro case. Much was brought up on Judge Niemeyer's dissent (pro-2A) in Masciandaro.
- Judge Diaz mentions that the 2A doesn't have a GSR qualifier...
- Judge Diaz (?) mentions that Open Carrying of Shotguns seems kind of counter-intuitive...
Alan Gura's time came up next....
- Judge King almost IMMEDIATELY started querying on Rooker-Feldman. We'll know for sure in a few days, but I believe it had to be at least the first 5 minutes of our 15 minute slot dialog abouto Rooker-Feldman. Gura says that this was explored at the Sister Case Kachalsky in NY, and was ruled out at District.
- After ~5 minutes of Rooker-Feldman, Judge King ate more time off the SAF clock (~2 minutes more) by going in the MD State Court case Williams (bus stop public carry of a gun). Gura had to explain this was a different animal. Judge King asked (knowing the answer) if this went to the Supreme Court (a petition was filed), Gura answered it had, but the Petition was denied. Judge King has a smile, I swear...
- Judge Davis (I'm starting to warm up to him) asks Gura if they could rule against a semi-auto, but permit a revolver with Open Carry (again, I like his thinking).
- Gura says probably not, brings up weapons in "Common Use" for "Lawful Purposes", per Heller.
- Judge King then starts probing whether the existing statute may be Legit. Clearly probing for a potential remand by my read....
Fader gets up for his rebuttal.
- States the state has not conceded the "scope" question (assuming this means outside the home), Judge King is nodding in agreement.
- Judge King, I think asked if Williams was Persuasive.
DISCLAIMER: I want to hear the tape to make sure I heard right...if so, we're fugged. I can't believe an Appellate Federal Judge would ask that question to begin with...again, I need to hear the audio, particularly during Fader's rebuttal time.
I'll let you all chew over that. I wanted to get something to the group, I want to get out and enjoy the beautiful day with a quick 20 miles on the bike...blow off some nervous energy....