View Single Post
Old October 5, 2012, 10:13 PM   #47
orionengnr
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 9, 2004
Posts: 4,985
Quote:
I think I read somewhere...I'm just going off the top of my head now...that they tested several brands of hollow points in .45 and 9mm. They both opened up to about the same .71-.80
Really? Who is "they"? I have never seen anything like that. I have seen tests where a well-designed JHP, driven to the correct speed for proper opening, can (under perfect conditions) open to approximately double its original size. That still leaves a pretty big difference between .710 and .904. As they say, a 9mm may expand, but a .45 will never shrink.
Quote:
Big bullets moving slow was what the world HAD back in the blackpowder era. We were supposed to have moved forward since then.
Yes, we often delude ourselves into believing that we have. The .45-70 and the .45LC were both black powder rounds, and were designed to (or be capable of) shooting through a horse or deer lengthwise, with predicatble and consistent results....no expansion required. Both are still extremely effective today.
On the other hand, we went from .30 cal bullets (Garand/M14) to .22 cal bullets (M16) in our military rifles. We went from .45 cal 1911s to 9mm M9s. Whether those were "moves forward" have been the subject of debate for, oh, about 40 years in the case of the M16, and a bit over 25 in the case of the M9. They are still being debated, and a number of other options are being tested for the M16...and a number of new 1911s are being sent to our Marines.
Quote:
When bullets have terminal striking velocity above 1300fps they begin to do damage far out of proportion to their caliber and mass.
Everything I have read sets that threshold much higher, and most place it between 2000-2500 FPS. In simple terms, most any bullet fired at rifle velocities can generate "Hydrostatic shock". Pistols, no matter what pistol, cannot do that..so pistol rounds depend on momentum to get the job done.
Quote:
RBCD makes a factory 45acp load that is 115gr velocity 1,650fps I wonder what the math is on that one.
This is a perfect example of why "energy" is a poor predictor of effectiveness. RCBD builds a bullet of a light metal jacket filled with an epoxy resin. It weighs next to nothing so it screams out of the barrel. If you are using the energy equation, it generates a theoretical 13 Katrillion ft-lbs. But shoot it into something, and it fragments with very little penetration. It is the ultimate extension of the Glaser/Magsafe concept. Great on paper...in more ways than one. If you can show me even one respected trainer, LEA/military/ etc. who recommends and uses Glaser/MagSafe/RCBD ammo...I will read those words and take them under advisement.
Quote:
A hit with a .22 is better than a miss with a .44
I always love this argument...it is always presented as if those were the only two possible outcomes.
If you can't hit what you aim at with a .44, perhaps you should carry a .22...or, maybe you could practice with the .44.
Then the likely outcomes change dramatically. I will not pursue this line of thought...it should be self-evident.
Quote:
The .45 extra power does not outweigh the extra capacity the 9mm has to offer.
Once again, this is an opinion, presented as a fact. Calling your dog a duck does not allow the dog to fly, and if you invite some friends to dinner and serve them your "duck" they are unlikely to be impressed...and they probably won't show up the next time they are invited, either.
orionengnr is offline  
 
Page generated in 0.05387 seconds with 7 queries