Originally Posted by ZeroJunk
You like Peetza are thowing in stuff that I didn't say. I suspect I have been shooting longer than you have although not as much I'm sure, but at least once a week at different ranges back in the early seventies. More when the mood hits me now. And guess what, the bullets went right where the data said they would go.
I never said that you could compare shooting your gun in a vice to shooting hanging upside down by a tree limb in a hurricane which is sort of the strawman ya'll are throwing in there.
There is no reason why a man should get a substantially different MOA at 400 than he does at 200 unless the wind is squirrely, which is what I said to start with. And, the bullet drop is going to be plenty close to what the data says for elk size game.
And, I can't imagine anybody taking a 400 yard shot on anything without a good rest of some sort. My back pack and hunting coat work just fine.
If the man can't hit a paint can at 200 yards he has no business taking a 400 yard shot. But, I bet he knows that.
Well, I have no doubt that I have the least experience of anyone in this conversation but my experience tells me the opposite of yours, and my experience tells me the same as KraigWy's
I have NEVER seen a bullet that flies like a ballistics calculator says it will. Generally, from what I've seen, they both drop and drift LESS than expected, at least at relatively close range out to 300-350, which is the limit of my experience. Yet, at the same time, my experience also tells me that making those shots at 300, 400, 500 yards is MUCH harder than the calculators might indicate and much harder than "2x half the distance".
However, I also believe that YOU are the ones putting words in OUR mouths and then claiming that we put those words in yours.
You mentioned shooting for groups at 200 yards. I don't know too many people (and certainly the OP never mentioned it) who shoot for groups under hunting conditions. Certainly, some people do, but they're not shooting 2" groups at 200 yards under typical hunting conditions. Since YOU mentioned 2" groups at 200 yards, the implication, I think clearly, is shooting for groups under nearly ideal conditions, since very few could shoot such groups under less than ideal conditions.
Since the OP will
be hunting, his shots will
be under hunting conditions, shooting 2" groups at 200 yards doesn't not extrapolate to shooting an elk at 400 (or the OPs 500) yards.
Add to that the fact that 2" at 200 does not simply become 4" at 400, for many reasons, not the least of which is that wind drift is not linear, and you have the making of disaster and disappointment when the first shot at 4 or 500 yards is at a live animal.
Shooting 225, 250, 275 when you've never shot over 200 is one thing. Shooting 4 or 500 is quite another.
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.